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Message: <blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 1114555" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Because I object to the use of force doesn't mean I object to offering help regardless of the choice the woman does make.  Nor do I not have empathy for her condition.   I reject the notion that there has to be a "gun in the room" as a means to an end.   Are you saying that violence or the threat of violence is the only means to solving a problem?  If yes, did you beat you kids and wife to achieve the needed ends within your family?  If no, and the family is but a microcosm of larger society, then why is it assumed in larger society we must be "beaten" to solve problems and find solutions?</p></blockquote><p></p>