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<blockquote data-quote="vantexan" data-source="post: 5692136" data-attributes="member: 24302"><p>But that&#039;s just it.&nbsp; Being middle class is fine.&nbsp; Being working class is fine.&nbsp; As long as I&#039;ve got some kind of shelter, food to eat, clothes to wear, I&#039;m fine.&nbsp; I don&#039;t care if a rich guy has a lot more than me.&nbsp; Why do we need to make it out of the middle class?&nbsp; Middle class in the U.S. is wealthy by much of the world&#039;s standards.&nbsp; And I came from an impoverished situation as a kid too.&nbsp; I want businesses to succeed and grow and provide employment.&nbsp; And I want government to encourage that, not hinder it.&nbsp; The two parties aren&#039;t rich vs poor, that&#039;s nothing but envy.&nbsp; The two parties are capitalism vs socialism.&nbsp; Keeping more of what you earn vs taking from those who produce and giving to those who don&#039;t.&nbsp; A just society helps those in need in times of emergency.&nbsp; A just society doesn&#039;t let people starve or turn them away from hospitals.&nbsp; But a just society also should demand effort be made to earn your way if you are physically/mentally capable of doing so.&nbsp; Most are for most of their lives but at some point most aren&#039;t capable of continuing to do so.&nbsp; A just society recognizes that the wealthy got that way from keeping the pay of many employees as low as possible for as long as possible so that the wealthy could get wealthier.&nbsp; Under those circumstances it&#039;s only fair, and just, that the employer match the contributions into an old age pension that the employee automatically contributes to through his paycheck.&nbsp; Nothing wrong with being working class, middle class, upper class as long as there&#039;s a recognition that we all are doing our part to make it work.&nbsp; Using someone up then casting then aside when their body starts breaking down without assurances they can at least survive in their old age isn&#039;t a just society no more than giving healthy people in their 20&#039;s money to stay home and do nothing.&nbsp; Not satisfied with being working class?&nbsp; Do more, learn more.&nbsp; Don&#039;t envy, work.&nbsp; You&#039;re obviously doing that to move up out of UPS.&nbsp; I would put forth the average UPS guy is working harder than most and is earning his way into a better life.&nbsp; Most jobs just don&#039;t require that level of physicality.&nbsp; But they are being rewarded for it even if it takes a union to insure it.&nbsp; Most in the working world don&#039;t have that.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="vantexan, post: 5692136, member: 24302"] But that's just it. Being middle class is fine. Being working class is fine. As long as I've got some kind of shelter, food to eat, clothes to wear, I'm fine. I don't care if a rich guy has a lot more than me. Why do we need to make it out of the middle class? Middle class in the U.S. is wealthy by much of the world's standards. And I came from an impoverished situation as a kid too. I want businesses to succeed and grow and provide employment. And I want government to encourage that, not hinder it. The two parties aren't rich vs poor, that's nothing but envy. The two parties are capitalism vs socialism. Keeping more of what you earn vs taking from those who produce and giving to those who don't. A just society helps those in need in times of emergency. A just society doesn't let people starve or turn them away from hospitals. But a just society also should demand effort be made to earn your way if you are physically/mentally capable of doing so. Most are for most of their lives but at some point most aren't capable of continuing to do so. A just society recognizes that the wealthy got that way from keeping the pay of many employees as low as possible for as long as possible so that the wealthy could get wealthier. Under those circumstances it's only fair, and just, that the employer match the contributions into an old age pension that the employee automatically contributes to through his paycheck. Nothing wrong with being working class, middle class, upper class as long as there's a recognition that we all are doing our part to make it work. Using someone up then casting then aside when their body starts breaking down without assurances they can at least survive in their old age isn't a just society no more than giving healthy people in their 20's money to stay home and do nothing. Not satisfied with being working class? Do more, learn more. Don't envy, work. You're obviously doing that to move up out of UPS. I would put forth the average UPS guy is working harder than most and is earning his way into a better life. Most jobs just don't require that level of physicality. But they are being rewarded for it even if it takes a union to insure it. Most in the working world don't have that. [/QUOTE]

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