GUILTY AS CHARGED... Tim and Gang ordered to pay money back

[wreckingball251]

I find it funny that every time TDU people get caught with thier pants down, they cry conspiracy, kangaroo court, lies ect...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...harges&usg=AFQjCNEOEzCndmfw-mXe40e8Bxj_tXFyPA

 

[Inthegame]

Whether these guys are TDU or not is irrelevant.
This is a matter of math.
It appears at least 10 agents/officers lost their union positions in the December 2015 L804 Officer election. Each one of them could/should have earned full credit of 2016 vacations during calendar year 2015. When they became unelected, the locals obligation to pay those vacation hours remains.
If L804 follows the UPS vacation schedule (likely) and if the unelected officers/agents get the max vacations (also very likely if you look at their seniority status), each outgoing agent/officer is entitled to 7 wks of 2016 earned vacation, just like every other UPS employee with similar seniority. That gets us to 70 weeks X their rate. Using $130,000 as their average annual salary,(see LM2) gives a $2500 per week vacation check X 70 weeks = $175,000. Add in L804's (as the employer) additional state/federal, fica and unemployment obligation of around 10% and voila we have $192,500.
If 2016 unused and previous years vacations can be carried over, $200,000 plus is well within reason.

 

[wide load]

Whether these guys are TDU or not is irrelevant.
This is a matter of math.
It appears at least 10 agents/officers lost their union positions in the December 2015 L804 Officer election. Each one of them could/should have earned full credit of 2016 vacations during calendar year 2015. When they became unelected, the locals obligation to pay those vacation hours remains.
If L804 follows the UPS vacation schedule (likely) and if the unelected officers/agents get the max vacations (also very likely if you look at their seniority status), each outgoing agent/officer is entitled to 7 wks of 2016 earned vacation, just like every other UPS employee with similar seniority. That gets us to 70 weeks X their rate. Using $130,000 as their average annual salary,(see LM2) gives a $2500 per week vacation check X 70 weeks = $175,000. Add in L804's (as the employer) additional state/federal, fica and unemployment obligation of around 10% and voila we have $192,500.
If 2016 unused and previous years vacations can be carried over, $200,000 plus is well within reason.

I don't disagree with you. And they should be paid if owed. However, I think the big issue is Tim's claim of making a 2.5 year campaign push around the country. I think what is questioned is was he allocating the appropriate "time off" when campaigning? He also said he was owed 14 weeks (his words), when the bylaws only a lot for 9 max.

 

[Bubblehead]

Whether these guys are TDU or not is irrelevant.
This is a matter of math.
It appears at least 10 agents/officers lost their union positions in the December 2015 L804 Officer election. Each one of them could/should have earned full credit of 2016 vacations during calendar year 2015. When they became unelected, the locals obligation to pay those vacation hours remains.
If L804 follows the UPS vacation schedule (likely) and if the unelected officers/agents get the max vacations (also very likely if you look at their seniority status), each outgoing agent/officer is entitled to 7 wks of 2016 earned vacation, just like every other UPS employee with similar seniority. That gets us to 70 weeks X their rate. Using $130,000 as their average annual salary,(see LM2) gives a $2500 per week vacation check X 70 weeks = $175,000. Add in L804's (as the employer) additional state/federal, fica and unemployment obligation of around 10% and voila we have $192,500.
If 2016 unused and previous years vacations can be carried over, $200,000 plus is well within reason

I was originally "shocked" by the $ amount, being from a small Local in comparison.

Thanks for breaking down the math and remaining somewhat objective....and answering some of my questions.

 

[SoCalUPS]

Whether these guys are TDU or not is irrelevant.
This is a matter of math.
It appears at least 10 agents/officers lost their union positions in the December 2015 L804 Officer election. Each one of them could/should have earned full credit of 2016 vacations during calendar year 2015. When they became unelected, the locals obligation to pay those vacation hours remains.
If L804 follows the UPS vacation schedule (likely) and if the unelected officers/agents get the max vacations (also very likely if you look at their seniority status), each outgoing agent/officer is entitled to 7 wks of 2016 earned vacation, just like every other UPS employee with similar seniority. That gets us to 70 weeks X their rate. Using $130,000 as their average annual salary,(see LM2) gives a $2500 per week vacation check X 70 weeks = $175,000. Add in L804's (as the employer) additional state/federal, fica and unemployment obligation of around 10% and voila we have $192,500.
If 2016 unused and previous years vacations can be carried over, $200,000 plus is well within reason.

Yes this makes sense. But the problem is Timmy was hitting the campaign trail while being paid by someone. Either he was a) campaigning on the clock which violates election laws or b) he used vacation time and then claimed he was owed it.

 

[Inthegame]

Yes this makes sense. But the problem is Timmy was hitting the campaign trail while being paid by someone. Either he was a) campaigning on the clock which violates election laws or b) he used vacation time and then claimed he was owed it.

Maybe or maybe not.

During 2015, TS could have been using some vacation days (not all) earned in 2014 to campaign in 2015, and vacation days taken in 2015 count toward vacation hours earned for 2016, exactly the same as hourly employees at UPS. (TS qualified for at least 40 days of vacation per year, some of which can be "banked".)

Active campaigning on the clock is illegal, but very difficult to prove as incumbents have every right to "visit" workplaces (in their jurisdiction), and both sides did this during the last election cycle. (Of course the incumbent IBT officers have unlimited jurisdiction).

The Teamsters United slate campaigned on some weekends as they advertised meetings on Saturday and Sunday which are not vacation or work days.

I believe this issue can be clarified easily as the local union should have a roster citing vacation days taken, and that roster is now in the possession of the new administration. IBT auditors require local unions to keep such rosters.

2016 campaigning is moot as TS was back working at UPS.

 

[Karma is a bitch]

Inthegame. Who gets 7 weeks ?
@804 we get 6 weeks max

 

[wide load]

Inthegame. Who gets 7 weeks ?
@804 we get 6 weeks max

Can't you roll over 3?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Can't you roll over 3?

We can't roll over anything. We are paid for unused personal and sick days on or about Dec. 15.

 

[wide load]

We can't roll over anything. We are paid for unused personal and sick days on or about Dec. 15.

Im talking about the executive board of Local 804

 

[just chillin']

don't know if the eboards vaca rule are different from the rest of the rank and file, but in 804 we max out at 6 weeks after 25 yrs like karma stated and we can't roll over/bank any weeks and there's no breaking weeks up into single vacation days. vacation hours are reset on your seniority date and all vacation picks are done in November for the following year. now in November, depending on your seniority date, some people pick some weeks acquired from the previous seniority date and some from the next seniority date if that makes sense.

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

don't know if the eboards vaca rule are different from the rest of the rank and file, but in 804 we max out at 6 weeks after 25 yrs like karma stated and we can't roll over/bank any weeks and there's no breaking weeks up into single vacation days. vacation hours are reset on your seniority date and all vacation picks are done in November for the following year. now in November, depending on your seniority date, some people pick some weeks acquired from the previous seniority date and some from the next seniority date if that makes sense.

I would think it has to be different for the eboard....if someone has their vacations replenished in October and they get voted out in December what would they do with 6 weeks vacation in the bank?

 

[Inthegame]

Inthegame. Who gets 7 weeks ?
@804 we get 6 weeks max

6 weeks vacation, plus optional holidays and sick pay.

 

[Bubblehead]

6 weeks vacation, plus optional holidays and sick pay.

I'm just a driver in the Central Region and get 7 weeks and 2 option days, for the 6th year in a row.
No sick days.

Took me 25 years to get there.

 

[Inthegame]

I'm just a driver in the Central Region and get 7 weeks and 2 option days, for the 6th year in a row.
No sick days.

Took me 25 years to get there.

And you deserve every minute!