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<blockquote data-quote="soberups" data-source="post: 998384" data-attributes="member: 14668">Ok, to a degree it is. You are correct&nbsp; that there are any number of socioeconomic factors apart&nbsp; from gun ownership and the availability of carry permits that will cause the crime rate in Chicago to be higher than Vermont.However...the argument against &quot;shall issue&quot; carry permits that is always being made by anti-gun mayors such as Daly in Chicago and Bloomberg in New York is that &quot;the streets will run red with blood&quot; and &quot;it will be like the Wild West with shootouts on every corner&quot;. This argument is patently false, as proven by states such as Vermont and Arizona that allow concealed carry with no permit at all, or the 33 &quot;shall issue&quot; states where any law-abiding person who completes the required training and background check shall be issued a permit rather than having their application arbitrarily denied.The reality....is that mayors like Daly and Bloomberg, as well as senators like Feinstien ( who herself has a carry permit that is impossible for the average person to obtain in CA) Boxer, Pelosi and Schumer all regard their constituents as subjects rather than citizens... subjects who are unworthy of deciding for themselves whether or not to own a gun for self defense or, in Bloombergs case, whether or not to purchase a fountain drink larger than 16 ounces. This is precisely the sort of hypocritical, nanny- state mentality that I oppose.Self sefense is a fundamental human right that should not be denied to certain people just because they live in a particular city or state.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="soberups, post: 998384, member: 14668"] Ok, to a degree it is. You are correct that there are any number of socioeconomic factors apart from gun ownership and the availability of carry permits that will cause the crime rate in Chicago to be higher than Vermont. However...the argument against "shall issue" carry permits that is always being made by anti-gun mayors such as Daly in Chicago and Bloomberg in New York is that "the streets will run red with blood" and "it will be like the Wild West with shootouts on every corner". This argument is patently false, as proven by states such as Vermont and Arizona that allow concealed carry with no permit at all, or the 33 "shall issue" states where any law-abiding person who completes the required training and background check [I]shall[/I] be issued a permit rather than having their application arbitrarily denied. The reality....is that mayors like Daly and Bloomberg, as well as senators like Feinstien ( who herself has a carry permit that is impossible for the average person to obtain in CA) Boxer, Pelosi and Schumer all regard their constituents as [I]subjects[/I] rather than [I]citizens[/I]... subjects who are unworthy of deciding for themselves whether or not to own a gun for self defense or, in Bloombergs case, whether or not to purchase a fountain drink larger than 16 ounces. This is precisely the sort of hypocritical, nanny- state mentality that I oppose. Self sefense is a [I]fundamental human right[/I] that should not be denied to certain people just because they live in a particular city or state. [/QUOTE]

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