Let's have some real talk about UPS' attendance policy

[EmraldArcher]

Or lack thereof.

Unless I missed it, the master contract does not prescribe any specific progression for disciplinary action as a result of attendance issues and neither does the southern supplement.

So, this seems to indicate that the type and frequency of discipline is left up to the employee's supervisors.

Does this mean that an employee can be given a termination notice after their first missed day of work (let's assume the employee has reached seniority)? I see nothing in the contract requiring they first receive a warning/suspension letter.

Additionally, if employee A misses 3 days and employee B misses 5 days can A be suspended/fired if B isn't?

I have never seen a company this large have such an opaque attendance policy.

 

[some1else]

Go ask the most senior person in your building how many people theyve seen fired for attendence they have seen in 30 years.

Nobody actually gets fired as long as you call an hour before and keep it reasonable. We have some with 30+ per year and not get fired stop worrying about it

 

[Anonymous 12]

It's six in a nine month period here in the central region. It's in the supplement. Look in your supplement.

 

[EmraldArcher]

It's six in a nine month period here in the central region. It's in the supplement. Look in your supplement.

I did and it's not.

It talks about the process for grieving a letter, how long the letter stays in effect, etc. but it does not outline a progression for discipline or specify a number of days that can be missed before discipline and such.

 

[Anonymous 12]

Call them and they will give you an answer if you can't get it from your local.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

Or lack thereof.

Unless I missed it, the master contract does not prescribe any specific progression for disciplinary action as a result of attendance issues and neither does the southern supplement.

So, this seems to indicate that the type and frequency of discipline is left up to the employee's supervisors.

Does this mean that an employee can be given a termination notice after their first missed day of work (let's assume the employee has reached seniority)? I see nothing in the contract requiring they first receive a warning/suspension letter.

Additionally, if employee A misses 3 days and employee B misses 5 days can A be suspended/fired if B isn't?

I have never seen a company this large have such an opaque attendance policy.

Varies hub-by-hub, center-by-center. The NMA and even the supplements don't typically elaborate on a specific attendance policy except most (if not all) supplements contain a provision about a 3 day no-call no show being considered to have voluntarily quit.

Outside of that, terminations for attendance must be with "just cause" and follow progressive discipline. This means that you're documented/given a warning letter on the first offense (a warning letter for attendance after missing a single day isn't typical in the hub, but can happen) and a warning letter coupled with a suspension follows. Only after a suspension has been served can an employee actually be terminated for attendance. At all three stages the union can intervene on your behalf.

Additionally, under "just cause", discipline must be fair and evenly applied. This means that if employee A and employee B both miss 3 days of work and have clean records, employee A cannot be disciplined more severely than employee B. Long story short, unless you've already served a suspension for attendance/signed a last-and-final agreement on attendance, you cannot be fired for missing a single day of work.

 

[Harry Manback]

Here's some real talk. The vast majority of us applied for a job with the intention of working.

Attendance problems are usually only experienced by folks who can't seem to drag their ass (sorry mods) to work when expected. These problems aren't our union's or our company's problems. They're your problems.

Got an extenuating medical or family medical issue that keeps you from work? Great, FMLA to the rescue.

Like to call in...a lot? Sorry bout that, bruh. Your local (and international) has bigger fish to fry than to defend a sorry, deadweight, me-ster with attendance problems.

#RealTalk


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[Island]

There was a guy in my sort who missed over 200 days one year. He was missing 4 days every week, just coming in the one to get his benefits. Naturally after he won his grievances somehow (I have no idea how), the company began a crusade against him. A lot of the harassment was really obvious and personal stuff, like putting him alone in a disaster area with no help, or in a trailer surrounded by management who spent the whole time complaining to him about how hard their jobs are.
I was blessed to work with him on what I think was his last day. He quit, saying, this job isn't worth the hassle, even if you are squeeky clean and a good worker. So take em for all they got. I was in awe the entire time.
Our policy down south is, more or less, you nocall 10 times or call in 10 times with no option time left, and that's a warning letter to suspend. Usually they never actually suspend you for that one. 10 more and they will warn with intent to terminate, which gets argued down to suspension. And usually their paperwork is all stupid because they just copy someone else's warning letter, white out their name, and write in yours. And so you just hand it to the union and explain that this warning letter from the 90s is not valid.
However they do manage to fire the people who continue to miss days after they've been waiting on a grievance hearing. If you grieve, even with a good case, then call in a few times, the union is probably going to abandon its slam dunk defense and let you go.
My experience, not representative of everyone else.

 

[some1else]

Like to call in...a lot? Sorry bout that, bruh. Your local (and international) has bigger fish to fry than to defend a sorry, deadweight, me-ster with attendance problems.

Its a job not slavery if i have somehwere better to be i call in and the boxes almost always get delivered somehow!!

As with anything dont be at the top of the list, but seeing as how we have drivers that call in about 1 a week doing 20-25 a year gets a warning letter or two. No big deal

 

[ncupser82]

Go ask the most senior person in your building how many people theyve seen fired for attendence they have seen in 30 years.

Nobody actually gets fired as long as you call an hour before and keep it reasonable. We have some with 30+ per year and not get fired stop worrying about it

Idk my sup has threatened termination if I don't make it to the PCM by 8:30. I'm sure its more to do with the district manager giving him an earful when I missed the PCM for "watch for pedestrians day" than the actual attendance policy! Now a days if they want to fire you they'll find something...cya!

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[upschuck]

Here it is 6 in 6 months and the language is supposedly in the rider, which nobody I've talked to has actually seen, including union officials. Been told that the rider is so good for the union that they won't open it up to renegotiate for, at least, the last 20+ yrs. Don't know if it is real or folk lore.

 

[oldngray]

Attendance is handled very unfairly. There are people who call in all the time and UPS policy seems to be "that's just how those guys are", but when one of the people who they count on to always be there calls in they get hassled about it. For instance I almost never missed more than one or 2 days a year but one year I got sick twice,. I missed 2 days in January from flu then got sick and missed 1 more day in April. center manager had me in office over my attendance when the driver next to me averages 2 to 3 days per month. I just ignored him and walked away but my attitude was "wtf?". I was guessing he was getting heat from above over overall attendance numbers and I was the next guy to call in.

 

[browniehound]

Its a job not slavery if i have somehwere better to be i call in and the boxes almost always get delivered somehow!!

As with anything dont be at the top of the list, but seeing as how we have drivers that call in about 1 a week doing 20-25 a year gets a warning letter or two. No big deal

I agree, attendance policy is the least of my worries. I haven't thought about it in 15 years.

 

[browniehound]

Its also a double edged sword for the company. Let's face it, nobody ever gets fired for calling in sick. So how do they discipline an employee who calls in sick too often and never wants to work? They suspend them and give them 3 days off. Is that really a punishment? To me, it sounds like a vacation to someone who doesn't want to work in the first place.

I always thought that was funny. Send someone home and tell him he can't work because he hasn't been at work. Only at UPS.

 

[PT Car Washer]

What is really crazy is when your manager allows you to schedule your 3 day suspension around the weekend for a mini vacation. "I would like to be suspended Thur, Fri. and the following Mon."

 

[UPSGUY72]

Or lack thereof.

Unless I missed it, the master contract does not prescribe any specific progression for disciplinary action as a result of attendance issues and neither does the southern supplement.

So, this seems to indicate that the type and frequency of discipline is left up to the employee's supervisors.

Does this mean that an employee can be given a termination notice after their first missed day of work (let's assume the employee has reached seniority)? I see nothing in the contract requiring they first receive a warning/suspension letter.

Additionally, if employee A misses 3 days and employee B misses 5 days can A be suspended/fired if B isn't?

I have never seen a company this large have such an opaque attendance policy.

Apparently you either one call in all the time or two want to find out how often you can call in before getting fired.

How hard is it to just show up to work and work. If you want to call in every week or every other week go find another job that better fits your no work ethic lifestyle.

 

[O/C]

Apparently you either one call in all the time or two want to find out how often you can call in before getting fired.

How hard is it to just show up to work and work. If you want to call in every week or every other week go find another job that better fits your no work ethic lifestyle.

Needing every cent of a paycheck is enough incentive for me to show up. Most of the terminations that I see with attendance deal with dishonesty, changing time cards or calling off sick and your manager sees you on TV at sporting event. Generally the "punishment has to fit the crime" or the "double standard" protects most people, except when progressive discipline procedures are followed. Really you have to be pretty much out there to lose your job over attendance issues.

 

[browniehound]

Apparently you either one call in all the time or two want to find out how often you can call in before getting fired.

How hard is it to just show up to work and work. If you want to call in every week or every other week go find another job that better fits your no work ethic lifestyle.

In my center none of the cover drivers want to work. Its pathetic. They all come in hoping to be scheduled off everyday. And when they are assigned to a route all they do is piss and moan about how bad the route is and what's wrong with it.(sorry buddy, they are ALL bad and ALL of them have many things wrong with them and that is NEVER going to change)

What goes through their heads? I mean they get up, shower, make a lunch, put on their browns, drive to UPS and then what? They are expecting not to work? And they're disappointed when they have to?

During the slow times there is a whole bunch of them standing around with nothing to do. I could offer them $100 to take my route out for the day and they would turn me down.

I'm assuming these cover drivers will get their own route one day and then what? They will have to work everyday. Or more likely they will call out sick all the time and turn into the people we are talking about with the attendance problems.

How do you get up in the morning, prepare for work, go to work, and then get upset when you actually have to work? I don't get it. You wouldn't believe the crying when one of them is assigned to a route they hate (which is most of them). All you hear is them whining to the sup. how bad it is. And all you want to say is "buddy, you're a cover driver. shut up and do it like a man." "Does your wife know you're this big of a sissy?" "Does she know she married a baby with no work ethic?" "what does your father-in-law think about your lazy ass?"

I pan-handled for routes when I was cover.

I believe this is a scenario unique to UPS and doesn't exist in 99% of American workplaces.

 

[PT Car Washer]

I know this scenario does not exist in my building. Nobody gets ready to come in to work and then hopes not to work. What would be the point?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I know this scenario does not exist in my building. Nobody gets ready to come in to work and then hopes not to work. What would be the point?

We have a couple of casuals who would rather stay home than work.