Pension extension?

[Wally]

I was with a friend last night who is in the financial sector. We were talking about pensions and under funding problems. He suggested copying social security, that is, the option of working longer, delaying withdrawal, for a larger sum. You could leave if you want at 30, however if you work 5 or 10 years longer, the monthly amounts increase.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

A lot of factors would have to go in to that decision. What is your current financial position and how do you expect it to change by the time you get your 30 years? Is your house paid for? Do you have a lot of credit card debt? How well is your 401k or other retirement investments funded? Are there any major expenditures in your immediate or not-too-distant future? The final, and perhaps most important, question is do you think that the additional monthly sums in your pension would be worth the extra 5-10 (or more) years you would have to work?

The last thing that any of us should want is for our finances to dictate whether we can retire when eligible or not.

My plan is to retire in May 2019 at the age of 58. I will have zero personal debt and my house will be paid for. I am projecting a 401k balance of $200K which I plan to roll over in to my Roth IRA upon retirement. I will not draw SS early. I live a fairly modest lifestyle and my pension and the equity from the sale of my condo should be more than sufficient to meet my needs. To me the extra $100-500/month in my pension would not be worth the extra 5-10 years.

A lot can change in 5 1/2 years but, as of now, this is my plan.

Retirement is not just about being financially ready----you must be emotionally retire to move on to the next phase in your life. This has been the crux of the argument concerning Tom Camp, the UPS driver from Detroit who just completed his 51st year of safe driving. Those who know him say he is happy and more than financially set. It sounds to me as though he may not be emotionally ready to retire, which to me is a shame. He is 73 years old----at that age I hope to be so busy with my children and grandchildren that work will be the last thing on my mind.

Wally, your pension office should be able to provide you with your pension projections at the 30, 35 and 40 year marks. Use this information, along with the questions I posed above, to make your decision. IMO the extra money per month is not worth it, especially with the direction in which this company is headed.

 

[Anonymous 10]

I was with a friend last night who is in the financial sector. We were talking about pensions and under funding problems. He suggested copying social security, that is, the option of working longer, delaying withdrawal, for a larger sum. You could leave if you want at 30, however if you work 5 or 10 years longer, the monthly amounts increase.

No thanks but thanks for asking

 

[rod]

I was with a friend last night who is in the financial sector. We were talking about pensions and under funding problems. He suggested copying social security, that is, the option of working longer, delaying withdrawal, for a larger sum. You could leave if you want at 30, however if you work 5 or 10 years longer, the monthly amounts increase.

Sure you can get more. When I left it was 100 bucks a month more for each year over 30. A hundred bucks a month------thats like 25 bucks a week (before taxes) to work at UPS. No thanks.

 

[Inthegame]

If your friend was referring to the financial health of pension funds, he's dead on. Service pensions (25 and out's etc.) are draining funds prematurely in every case. Mature Pension funds were designed years ago with a target of a 65 year old retirement date. Political decisions have lowered that date for participants in many cases to levels that put extreme pressure on fund investments to make up the shortfalls.
Accrual based benefits (contributory years) are much easier (and more predictable) for funds to sustain, and follows the SS model. If more funds move in the direction of increased accrual rather than the early outs, pensions will survive, but our "leaders" somehow need to explain that to broken down members who want out at 50. That's the political challenge few want to face so down the road goes the can...

 

[rod]

Sure you can get more. When I left it was 100 bucks a month more for each year over 30. A hundred bucks a month------thats like 25 bucks a week ([before) taxes) to work at UPS. No thanks. I would get a different financial advisor---this guy don't have a clue what you are dealing with. He is just looking out for himself and wants more of your hard earned money to play with.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

If your friend was referring to the financial health of pension funds, he's dead on. Service pensions (25 and out's etc.) are draining funds prematurely in every case. Mature Pension funds were designed years ago with a target of a 65 year old retirement date. Political decisions have lowered that date for participants in many cases to levels that put extreme pressure on fund investments to make up the shortfalls.
Accrual based benefits (contributory years) are much easier (and more predictable) for funds to sustain, and follows the SS model. If more funds move in the direction of increased accrual rather than the early outs, pensions will survive, but our "leaders" somehow need to explain that to broken down members who want out at 50. That's the political challenge few want to face so down the road goes the can...

I've noticed that 25 and out is the first thing to go when pensions start having funding problems but never knew it was that detrimental to the long-term viability of the funds. The more you know..

 

[East coast navy]

I've noticed that 25 and out is the first thing to go when pensions start having funding problems but never knew it was that detrimental to the long-term viability of the funds. The more you know..

I was hired at 23 years old. If I leave 25 in, I will be 48. If I could find a job that pays 2/3 to 75% of what I would making at that point at ups and they gave me ok healthcare(which is very possible).

That would as sweet as sugar.
​

 

[PiedmontSteward]

I was hired at 23 years old. If I leave 25 in, I will be 48. If I could find a job that pays 2/3 to 75% of what I would making at that point at ups and they gave me ok healthcare(which is very possible).

That would as sweet as sugar.
​

I started at 17 but don't receive credit for my years before age 21. I would technically be able to retire under PT 25 and out at age 46. It's something to think about, but I doubt I'll book at that time unless state governments in this country start to at least consider treating teachers a little bit better.

 

[saintrick]

I started at 17 but don't receive credit for my years before age 21. I would technically be able to retire under PT 25 and out at age 46. It's something to think about, but I doubt I'll book at that time unless state governments in this country start to at least consider treating teachers a little bit better.

You do not become a participant until age 21. Once you are a participant credit is based on your date of employment. (ups pension plan)

 

[PiedmontSteward]

You do not become a participant until age 21. Once you are a participant credit is based on your date of employment. (ups pension plan)

Hence why I said, "I started at 17 but don't receive credit for my years before age 21." Technically, I don't think I would have been vested until I hit my fifth year of service after age 21.

 

[saintrick]

Hence why I said, "I started at 17 but don't receive credit for my years before age 21." Technically, I don't think I would have been vested until I hit my fifth year of service after age 21.

But you do receive credit for your years before age 21.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

But you do receive credit for your years before age 21.

Huh. So you can receive credit for years of service before age 21, but cannot be a participant until age 21? That's not the way it's been explained to me in the past, although I'm certainly hoping you're right. There was an addition to Art. 34 in the NMA (after 2002) that required UPS to grant credited years of service to employees who worked for UPS after age 21 but didn't receive credit before the age of 25. I always interpreted that to mean that years of service before age 21 didn't contribute towards pension credit.

 

[oldngray]

It may vary by local but the details have changed several times over the years. I think before 1976 you got no credit under 25 when it changed to 21. Sometime in the 1980's they changed details again and based it just on hours worked and not age. They also reduced to from 10 years to 5 to get partially vested as a part timer then. I'm not sure about the change in 2002.

 

[saintrick]

Huh. So you can receive credit for years of service before age 21, but cannot be a participant until age 21? That's not the way it's been explained to me in the past, although I'm certainly hoping you're right. There was an addition to Art. 34 in the NMA (after 2002) that required UPS to grant credited years of service to employees who worked for UPS after age 21 but didn't receive credit before the age of 25. I always interpreted that to mean that years of service before age 21 didn't contribute towards pension credit.

Write to the retirement department and request your annual pension statement. It will show credit from you date of employment.

No credit before age 21 is just a false fact that is widely accepted as truth.

Here is an example from the SPD

Example 2 — 30-Year Service Benefit
Joe S was born February 15, 1981. He began working for UPS on March 1, 1999 and has 30 years of Service Credit
when he retires. He is in “Covered Employment” since he is a part-time Eligible Employee covered by the International
Brotherhood of Teamsters Local 710 Agreement. He leaves UPS on February 28, 2029 at the age of 48. Joe is entitled to
the 30-Year Service Benefit ($1,650 per month at any age), beginning March 1, 2029 as a Single Life Only Annuity

 

[BrownBrokeDown]

Out of curiousity, is there anywhere online you can actually look at the part-time pension "stuff" rather than having to write them?

 

[3 done 3 to go]

A lot of factors would have to go in to that decision. What is your current financial position and how do you expect it to change by the time you get your 30 years? Is your house paid for? Do you have a lot of credit card debt? How well is your 401k or other retirement investments funded? Are there any major expenditures in your immediate or not-too-distant future? The final, and perhaps most important, question is do you think that the additional monthly sums in your pension would be worth the extra 5-10 (or more) years you would have to work?

The last thing that any of us should want is for our finances to dictate whether we can retire when eligible or not.

My plan is to retire in May 2019 at the age of 58. I will have zero personal debt and my house will be paid for. I am projecting a 401k balance of $200K which I plan to roll over in to my Roth IRA upon retirement. I will not draw SS early. I live a fairly modest lifestyle and my pension and the equity from the sale of my condo should be more than sufficient to meet my needs. To me the extra $100-500/month in my pension would not be worth the extra 5-10 years.

A lot can change in 5 1/2 years but, as of now, this is my plan.

Retirement is not just about being financially ready----you must be emotionally retire to move on to the next phase in your life. This has been the crux of the argument concerning Tom Camp, the UPS driver from Detroit who just completed his 51st year of safe driving. Those who know him say he is happy and more than financially set. It sounds to me as though he may not be emotionally ready to retire, which to me is a shame. He is 73 years old----at that age I hope to be so busy with my children and grandchildren that work will be the last thing on my mind.

Wally, your pension office should be able to provide you with your pension projections at the 30, 35 and 40 year marks. Use this information, along with the questions I posed above, to make your decision. IMO the extra money per month is not worth it, especially with the direction in which this company is headed.

Especially your last paragraph

 

[Catatonic]

Out of curiousity, is there anywhere online you can actually look at the part-time pension "stuff" rather than having to write them?

Unless you are management, the answer to that is No, unless the Teamsters have something.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Unless you are management, the answer to that is No, unless the Teamsters have something.

We get an annual pension statement but, at least for my pension fund, there is no way to check it out online.

 

[CharleyHustle]

My plan is to retire in May 2019 at the age of 58. I will have zero personal debt and my house will be paid for. I am projecting a 401k balance of $200K which I plan to roll over in to my Roth IRA upon retirement.

Under the Teamster UPS National 401k plan, if you retire at 55 you can receive disbursements upon retiring if you leave your money in the plan. If you roll it over you have to wait till age 59.5 to make withdraws.