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<blockquote data-quote="johnoutdoors" data-source="post: 804679" data-attributes="member: 27521">67 1/2 really, as you can collect SS at 62 1/2.&nbsp; But before we even get to that, there are billions in savings in other areas that can be realized with cuts to grants that seem wholly ridiculous to many Americans.&nbsp; Me personally, I would cut the entitlements without hesitation.&nbsp; You want a gov&#039;t sponsored retirement...you get what you put in plus or minus any changes in the market.&nbsp; I, repeat, I am responsible for what happens to me after I CHOOSE to stop working.&nbsp; You need healthcare?&nbsp; Who is responsible for making sure that YOU can pay YOUR bills?&nbsp; Me?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; I am responsible for MY bills, not yours.&nbsp; &nbsp;You mention Greece, what is their tax burden as opposed to the US?&nbsp; Have you read about the common practice throughout Europe of giving college tuition for free?&nbsp; Would you have the US follow suit? We have a system that holds individuals largely accountable for their own costs.&nbsp; Why should we change to a system that has me paying for you?&nbsp; Should I not be responsible for paying my own way, if not can I have a few thousand dollars to pay my mortgage for the next few months?&nbsp; Oh wait, the gov&#039;t will give it to people who didn&#039;t bother to read their mortgages and understand that they were taking a mortgage that they couldn&#039;t afford.&nbsp; How is that sustainable?&nbsp; &nbsp;If the US wants to be around for much longer we need to reign in our gov&#039;t.&nbsp; How much taxation is enough for you and those of your ilk?&nbsp; Can I assume that under your plan that I could stop working now, have unlimited unemployement benefits, as well as those for my wife, and ultimately collect SS without working another day in my life?&nbsp; Should I humble myself to the point of allowing someone else to pay my bills?&nbsp; Could I look myself in the mirror while taking handouts from someone else?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; I can&#039;t do that.&nbsp; Why? Its not the American way.&nbsp; My future is bound to my actions of today.&nbsp; I cannot accept other people&#039;s money for my responsiblities.&nbsp; It is my job to pay for my family, not yours, nor anyone elses.&nbsp; &nbsp;My plan is to retire shortly after my 30th anniversary with UPS.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Because by then I will have amassed enough wealth to pay for my future.&nbsp; Thanks to my planning and the choice that I made to work for a company that offers industry leading retirement benefits.&nbsp; If I chose to work elswhere, I would work longer to afford the same.&nbsp; Whos choice should that be?&nbsp; It should be mine and mine alone.&nbsp; &nbsp;I will stop here, because I am sure that we have ideological differences and no matter how much I argue based on common sense and logic, we will alway have different points of view. Even that is alright, given that in the United States of America, I can vote against people who share your tax and spend beliefs.&nbsp; I can urge all the people that I know to eschew the idea that I am respnsible for your debts.&nbsp; I can tell you that you are dead wrong telling me that I owe you money just because I work harder for my family that you do.&nbsp; What do you have to say to that?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="johnoutdoors, post: 804679, member: 27521"] 67 1/2 really, as you can collect SS at 62 1/2. But before we even get to that, there are billions in savings in other areas that can be realized with cuts to grants that seem wholly ridiculous to many Americans. Me personally, I would cut the entitlements without hesitation. You want a gov't sponsored retirement...you get what you put in plus or minus any changes in the market. I, repeat, I am responsible for what happens to me after I CHOOSE to stop working. You need healthcare? Who is responsible for making sure that YOU can pay YOUR bills? Me? No. I am responsible for MY bills, not yours. You mention Greece, what is their tax burden as opposed to the US? Have you read about the common practice throughout Europe of giving college tuition for free? Would you have the US follow suit? We have a system that holds individuals largely accountable for their own costs. Why should we change to a system that has me paying for you? Should I not be responsible for paying my own way, if not can I have a few thousand dollars to pay my mortgage for the next few months? Oh wait, the gov't will give it to people who didn't bother to read their mortgages and understand that they were taking a mortgage that they couldn't afford. How is that sustainable? If the US wants to be around for much longer we need to reign in our gov't. How much taxation is enough for you and those of your ilk? Can I assume that under your plan that I could stop working now, have unlimited unemployement benefits, as well as those for my wife, and ultimately collect SS without working another day in my life? Should I humble myself to the point of allowing someone else to pay my bills? Could I look myself in the mirror while taking handouts from someone else? No. I can't do that. Why? Its not the American way. My future is bound to my actions of today. I cannot accept other people's money for my responsiblities. It is my job to pay for my family, not yours, nor anyone elses. My plan is to retire shortly after my 30th anniversary with UPS. Why? Because by then I will have amassed enough wealth to pay for my future. Thanks to my planning and the choice that I made to work for a company that offers industry leading retirement benefits. If I chose to work elswhere, I would work longer to afford the same. Whos choice should that be? It should be mine and mine alone. I will stop here, because I am sure that we have ideological differences and no matter how much I argue based on common sense and logic, we will alway have different points of view. Even that is alright, given that in the United States of America, I can vote against people who share your tax and spend beliefs. I can urge all the people that I know to eschew the idea that I am respnsible for your debts. I can tell you that you are dead wrong telling me that I owe you money just because I work harder for my family that you do. What do you have to say to that? [/QUOTE]

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