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Message: <blockquote data-quote="bacha29" data-source="post: 4245170" data-attributes="member: 58386">Given that such programs are in obvious conflict with your conservative ideals you don't HAVE to apply for those benefits given the obvious anguish accepting them would cause you. Trouble is, I've never met a clucker  yet who turned them down. Why? Because by that stage of their lives when it came healthcare and retirement income it was their ONLY option and they were damn glad they were there after discovering just what the premiums of a private health insurance plan were along with the concerns regarding the future sustainability of some private pension and retiree healthcare plans .And don't give me this BS about it not being there when you come to retire. It will be there .....both parties will see to it that it is.</blockquote>