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<blockquote data-quote="bbsam" data-source="post: 818550" data-attributes="member: 22662">Adding up body bags?&nbsp; I suppose that&#039;s one way of looking at it.&nbsp; Doesn&#039;t really get at the real issue though.&nbsp; Let me help you there.&nbsp; People who feel oppressed, frightened, and hopeless have found solace in religion throughout the ages.&nbsp; In the cases of Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., and Nelson Mandela, whole movements have risen up with a religious foundation and peaceful demonstration and non-compliance.There are those movements, however, that find a way to take the same religions and use them to justify hatred and violence.&nbsp; In this vein we find Al-Queda, the Aryan Brotherhood, and others.So I think the fruits are the same which leaves only one question left:&nbsp; the surrounding conditions.&nbsp; The KKK thrived in th South where the oppression of the North turned life upside-down.&nbsp; Not only had the Civil War devastated the Southern States, but it had crushed one it&#039;s primary engines of economic success (slavery).&nbsp; And though the South had lost the ability to wage war against the north, there were still target of opportunity.&nbsp; How hard is it in those conditions to convince people that blacks are &quot;the devil&#039;s children&quot;, and that freeing the savages were an afront to God.&nbsp; Don&#039;t minimize the violence that followed those &quot;religious&quot; exhortations.&nbsp; They could even make the case that Jesus himself never condemned slavery.&nbsp; In fact, the question never came up except in how the master was to treat a slave.&nbsp; For the most part this country has grown out of that contamination of religious thought.So what about Al-Queda?&nbsp; Same exact thing.&nbsp; But in the ghettos of Somalia and the mountains of Afganistan or the sands of Egypt and Saudi Arabia, the oppressors are the respective governments.&nbsp; If there is law, it is ignored.&nbsp; Those in power hang on to it through over-whelming brutality where there is no objection, no appeal.&nbsp; Is it any wonder that Abu-Ghraib only fuels those fires?&nbsp; Though the nations may be wealthy, the people have nothing.&nbsp; I would submit to you that in such conditions Christianity also could be bent to such hatred.&nbsp; Jesus himself said, &quot;I do not come to bring peace, but the sword.&quot;&nbsp; Elijah slaughtered the priests of a rival religion.&nbsp; Moses called down the plagues on Egypt including the death of each first born male.&nbsp; So even though Jesus commands us to &quot;Love our neighbors as ourselves,&quot; and offers such platitudes as &quot;The meek shall inherit the earth,&quot; and &quot;the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand,&quot; the Bible also holds equally valid millitancy for those in despair.&nbsp; That flame is not hard to ignite.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bbsam, post: 818550, member: 22662"] Adding up body bags? I suppose that's one way of looking at it. Doesn't really get at the real issue though. Let me help you there. People who feel oppressed, frightened, and hopeless have found solace in religion throughout the ages. In the cases of Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr., and Nelson Mandela, whole movements have risen up with a religious foundation and peaceful demonstration and non-compliance. There are those movements, however, that find a way to take the same religions and use them to justify hatred and violence. In this vein we find Al-Queda, the Aryan Brotherhood, and others. So I think the fruits are the same which leaves only one question left: the surrounding conditions. The KKK thrived in th South where the oppression of the North turned life upside-down. Not only had the Civil War devastated the Southern States, but it had crushed one it's primary engines of economic success (slavery). And though the South had lost the ability to wage war against the north, there were still target of opportunity. How hard is it in those conditions to convince people that blacks are "the devil's children", and that freeing the savages were an afront to God. Don't minimize the violence that followed those "religious" exhortations. They could even make the case that Jesus himself never condemned slavery. In fact, the question never came up except in how the master was to treat a slave. For the most part this country has grown out of that contamination of religious thought. So what about Al-Queda? Same exact thing. But in the ghettos of Somalia and the mountains of Afganistan or the sands of Egypt and Saudi Arabia, the oppressors are the respective governments. If there is law, it is ignored. Those in power hang on to it through over-whelming brutality where there is no objection, no appeal. Is it any wonder that Abu-Ghraib only fuels those fires? Though the nations may be wealthy, the people have nothing. I would submit to you that in such conditions Christianity also could be bent to such hatred. Jesus himself said, "I do not come to bring peace, but the sword." Elijah slaughtered the priests of a rival religion. Moses called down the plagues on Egypt including the death of each first born male. So even though Jesus commands us to "Love our neighbors as ourselves," and offers such platitudes as "The meek shall inherit the earth," and "the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand," the Bible also holds equally valid millitancy for those in despair. That flame is not hard to ignite. [/QUOTE]

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