The reason Is so clear when you goto the TDU site and see how Hoffa is caveing into UPS.Thirty percent pension cuts on thousands of UPSTeamsters in NewYork city.At a time when the IBT is trying to get UPS freight Hoffa blows it with major pension cuts and god knows what other cuts are soon to come.This is not who I want representing me If this is the power of the great IBT I would rather take my chances on the APWA.Hoffa should have stopped early contract talks and called a strike during peak.But why would you do that to the guy you play golf with?We the employees at UPS freight will just have to sit back and watch all the give backs that happen on Hoffas watch and so far he is making our choice real easy.APWA all the way!Thank you Hoffa for the heads up and to all the Teamster supporters wheres all the power in numbers you speak of? Looks like Hoffa is selling you down the river.
Why The APWA Is The Right Choice
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littlebrother
Member
any, the pension for UPS Parcel employees is why the Apwa is the right choice? You know I find it funny that the guy's supporting the Apwa can't find anything solidly positive with this not-yet organization so the only way to make them look good is to pick apart the Teamsters.
any, what if the two Feeder drivers that are trying to start this new union along with thier hired union busting law firm, are in fact company sponsored? What if they were approached to decertify the IBT by the company? Is this a greatly outlandish story telling attempt on my part? Or could it be something to think about?
Here's what I think, how can an organization like the Apwa promise or attempt to promise the numbers they state on the website without any membership? I mean, what if they don't get 1/4 of the employees to join that they are pitching to the insurance company for meds? Are they just going to give them the rate quoted if they come up short?
Pension. If you are that concerned with your pension and it's all hinging on this why not save you own money for your retirement instead of relying on someone else for retirement? I've been saving since I was a teen and apart of what I used to put myself through school, I've never touched it. It is a substantial amount, and along with my 401k over the years and years to come by the time I retire I will have more than enough to last my ending years, depending on cost of living at the time. A pension will be just another plus, but I'm definitely not relying on it.
How about pay and work rules? What experience does the Apwa have in negotiating a labor contract? Will the Overnite/ Motor Cargo side be on the same contract as Parcel or will they be lumped in together? If lumped in together the UPSF employees will not have a voice, well let's put it this way, 15,000 to 200,000 is no contest. As great as the Parcel side seems as far as pay and benefits, the work rules differ and might not be in UPSF employee's best interests'. There is a lot of uncovered territory with the Apwa, they might be promising a kingdom on their website and at meetings but aside from the Pension funding which is questionable they haven't got much.In my opinion.
Some of the Overnite employees will vote anything in but the Teamsters because of past dealings, that is your prerogative, but if I were you I would look into it a little deeper and not just pension deep.
Good luck which ever way you choose.
littlebrother
Littlebrother I already pay into SSI under funded now Im going to pay into another under funded retirement fund thats underfunded and pay into a 401k that could go bellyup (ENRON) man what other funds should i pay into and in the end get no return.As far as a good contract every post i read is negative over on the brown side.We work to late we don't get enough money for overtime our health care don't pay enough.What are the positives of being a teamster?As for the two feeder drivers I don't think they would have stopped paying their dues if they had UPS in their corner and I think UPS would be sitting down with them instead of Hoffa.
littlebrother
Member
Did you own enron stock? I didn't, and I haven't had a problem with my 401k yet. Once you get to a certian amount it starts to snowball. SSI is out of the question. These guy's you are listening to are the highest paid labor force in the industry, some of them are overcome with greed. What are you at now, .54 cpm and 21.50 p/hr? That's close to the union master scale. And your pension is fully funded. Why would you want any representation? I think you should look at some guidelines for your company to follow when casting your vote. Who's got the experience and a track record for keeping companies in check? Hint: It's not the Apwa. If you want representation you'll be better off with the contract that is comming out of Indy. Or you can wait for the Apwa to catch up on what the teamsters spent decades doing. It's yor choice.
littlebrother
helloitsme
Active Member
The APWA is a great idea....in theory. Competition is the basis of the Free Market Economy. However,the APWA has some not so stellar ideas too. The right to work stuff I do not agree with. It's either one for all or nothing at all ! Also,I have been to a couple of thier meetings,and,they want to write one big generic contract for all of UPSF,with no locals.This is not a good idea for a couple of reasons. the biggest being supplemental agreements. A guy in new england or california quite honestly needs a pay adjustment due to the higher cost of living in these areas. Also there are things that may need to be addressed at one location and not another. One generic contract will not do.
nospinzone
Well-Known Member
There will be no catching up. APWA will build on old successes of the IBT and correct the growing list of failures which Teamster employees have become sensitized to. No more aristocratic, self-serving leadership that only works to perpetuate itself. NO MORE SLATE ELECTIONS. Each candidate wins or loses on his/her plans to succeed or track record of failing. No more voices from other companies making decisions that effect you. The only voices and votes that will matter will be your voice and your co-workers. This is how APWA will improve upon the alternate union representation being offered. It's your choice.
littlebrother
Member
My choice was made a long time ago.
littlebrother
Member
I was told that they will have regions, like CA,HI,NV in one ect.. So it won't be like the locals we see with the IBT. But we will more than likely be under the same contract. UPSF employees would be better off in a Freight contract like NMFA or their own Freight contract.
helloitsme
Active Member
Oh ok...we need to have our own contract..not master freight. Why would we let Y/R/H and ABF employees make decisions for us ? We operate a lot different than the rest and need our own seperate contract. Not lumped in with parcels contract and not under NMFA either. JMHO
littlebrother
Member
Oh ok...we need to have our own contract..not master freight. Why would we let Y/R/H and ABF employees make decisions for us ? We operate a lot different than the rest and need our own seperate contract. Not lumped in with parcels contract and not under NMFA either. JMHO
Tell me hello, Is UPSF a freight company? If so why not master freight? What is so great about UPSF that their above being tied with YRC and ABF? Is it because in your mind, because UPS owns them that they are now so much better? Just how do you operate different than the rest? Maybe by not getting paid the delay time you deserve. Maybe by having to give up an hour here or an hour there. How many hours do you get paid if you are delayed 4 hours because of inclement weather? What about when you are taking hours in a hotel, how many hours do you have to sit there before they start paying you? What about work time, how much to fuel, hook to a trlr, hook a set, ect.?
UPSF comes up short in all of these categories as opposed to the NMFA. So what is so great about UPSF that they should have a seperate contract?
Hey Little brother Cuba has the same thinking of tradition to the IBT! Once you pick a dictator you have nothing left in the decision making process !!!!!!! Thats what really confuses me with the honor of being a teamster ? 6 more years of being led down the same oh path !!!! Hey look at the economy of Cuba ? Ibt ? Simialarites NO ? Yes ? Like the cubans they take what is given and have no say so. I feel sorry for the Cubans in Hialeah and Miami hub that came from such adversity only to come to ups to jump back into a similar existence of deceit and lies under the IBT leadership ? Because the IBT has not managed this groups $ the quality of insurance and pensions have gone in the toilet !
Because the IBT deems responsibility in taking care of other companies that went under and doing bad investing they are responsible for what it is today ! The company gave them the negotiated funds and they gave them to Central States and thats where we are at today. The government will step in later to try to get everything on an even playing field but by that time don`t expect the results to be any better. We are getting 40% Now ! What will it be later ????????????????????
Because the IBT deems responsibility in taking care of other companies that went under and doing bad investing they are responsible for what it is today ! The company gave them the negotiated funds and they gave them to Central States and thats where we are at today. The government will step in later to try to get everything on an even playing field but by that time don`t expect the results to be any better. We are getting 40% Now ! What will it be later ????????????????????
littlebrother
Member
Again, its all about pension. Just keep on cashing that check there Goose. IBT was good enough all these years to get the pay and benefits you enjoyed all these years, now all you do is bash them. And the reason? The pension, because apwa is claiming they can do so much better. Without the comparisons that you riddle your post's with, tell me what's so great about the apwa besides the promises. I mean, who's life have they made so great since they crawled up from under that rock. Honestly, what kind of pay is the apwa coming up with? How about work rules? Are they giving any indication of what the game plan is? Or is the pension the only thing your worried about?
Oh, and by the way, "smack's upside the head"? In person you wouldn't even think about saying that to me.
teamster talk with their hands right ?! Next it will be a brick in the window etc. Littlebrother you seem so cavalier about being true blue to the teamsters. What ever happen to fair trade and competition. Teamsters don`t care about you are you serious. Same goes for the company. Thats why i would like someone that is independent of the two . My pockets keep getting pilfered by my representation ? As for the smak upside the head it was in reference to the pilfering i don`t need to confront phyical agression. Police love those people too !
Little brother they did get us a very good pay. Partimers got theirs lowered ! Insurance is going down in quality. You must be from upnorth ? Maybe the local 804 ? As of now it looks like there will be a domino effect for all Teamsters on future accruals and age of retirement without penalties. Are you satisfied with the "Best Contract Ever" ? I assume you voted for Hoffa not that it matters because the teamster (pensioners) have structered where the investements. What happen to the $ to pay the truckers that companies went belly up. Why has it taken this long to figure out about underfunding ? As for APWA you have valid points about concerns. I too. But when the amount of $ is going outside the plan then i have management concerns especially if i am getting reduced now and more than likely later due to government intervention. It ain`t over till the fat one sings.
Another thing is why hasn`t Overnite and Fed-Ex jumped onboard if in your eyes that things are salvagable ? I know Overnite still has a bad taste in their mouth ! 
from past experiences ! At one time i was very proud to be considered a teamster. The shine has very much dulled and i do not see them coming back to water level after all said n done. Ups is not going to bail out the underage of the funds either.
Littlebrother please elaborate on what the fixes will or should be that would put the shine back in teamsters ?
from past experiences ! At one time i was very proud to be considered a teamster. The shine has very much dulled and i do not see them coming back to water level after all said n done. Ups is not going to bail out the underage of the funds either. Littlebrother please elaborate on what the fixes will or should be that would put the shine back in teamsters ?
Nows the time to hammer out some details prior to signing on with anybody so you don`t end up in a big quagmire of confusion !
brett636
Well-Known Member
I wonder how long it will take all these APWA supporters to figure out that pensions in general is a sinking ship all its own. It won't matter who runs it, a generous 401k match is a much better idea, but alas neither organization wants its own members to control their own destiny. I don't want UPS putting money into some giant slush fund that may or may not be there for me. Put the money into my 401k and let me decide what to do with it.
littlebrother
Member
"teamster talk with their hands right?!"
Your a Teamster you should know, or have you forgotten? Some people throw words out there without thinking about what they might mean to others. You might have had a loose bringing up, I was taught to mean what you say or keep your mouth shut. (its easier on the check book when its time to visit the Dentist.)
"Whatever happened to fair trade and competition"
Ok, so if you can pick your representation than with your statement the company can pick their employees on the same principal. Like going down to the local home depot and picking up a bus load of workers that will do the same job as you for a lot less. I know there is a lot of arguments as to why this will never happen. Quality of service, possible shortages and claims due to theft and/or improper handling, the list goes on and on. With your competition you speak of I see a lot of arguments as well, they not be the same as above but the same would be the outcome. Negative.
"you must be from up north"
No, I am not.
Listen, I understand that you older senior Parcel employees have to worry about your pension because that is whats going to take you through retirement (especially if one hasn't saved for retirement and is counting on the pension only) but as a younger (under 40) employee I have to think of the future and the now. Pension, pay, work rules, Medical benefits and job security. I don't see anything from the apwa that addresses anything but the pension (in theory) and meds (in theory). Analogy: Smart consumers don't buy the first year of a new model vehicle. They wait for the general public that don't think before they buy and let them work out the bugs and other problems before they consider a purchase. (I personally use consumer reports ) Usually the general public will purchase a vehicle based on one thing, more than likely being looks or design. This is what I'm seeing here with the apwa. But in this case, the decision being based on Pension.
littlebrother
Your a Teamster you should know, or have you forgotten? Some people throw words out there without thinking about what they might mean to others. You might have had a loose bringing up, I was taught to mean what you say or keep your mouth shut. (its easier on the check book when its time to visit the Dentist.)
"Whatever happened to fair trade and competition"
Ok, so if you can pick your representation than with your statement the company can pick their employees on the same principal. Like going down to the local home depot and picking up a bus load of workers that will do the same job as you for a lot less. I know there is a lot of arguments as to why this will never happen. Quality of service, possible shortages and claims due to theft and/or improper handling, the list goes on and on. With your competition you speak of I see a lot of arguments as well, they not be the same as above but the same would be the outcome. Negative.
"you must be from up north"
No, I am not.
Listen, I understand that you older senior Parcel employees have to worry about your pension because that is whats going to take you through retirement (especially if one hasn't saved for retirement and is counting on the pension only) but as a younger (under 40) employee I have to think of the future and the now. Pension, pay, work rules, Medical benefits and job security. I don't see anything from the apwa that addresses anything but the pension (in theory) and meds (in theory). Analogy: Smart consumers don't buy the first year of a new model vehicle. They wait for the general public that don't think before they buy and let them work out the bugs and other problems before they consider a purchase. (I personally use consumer reports ) Usually the general public will purchase a vehicle based on one thing, more than likely being looks or design. This is what I'm seeing here with the apwa. But in this case, the decision being based on Pension.
I don't know, I am not an adviser nor do I work for a consulting company. That would be a management issue and I gave up being a company lackey a long time ago. I am a blue collar worker just like you. I don't have any answers, but I would advise you and the rest of your fellow employees to voice your concerns and stand together. 200,000+ voices strong, if you stick together you will accomplish what you need. I say give the Teamsters a chance. Take that for what you think it's worth.
littlebrother
Little brother i saw in another thread you are from the western conference ! 93% funded. The last contract we were thrown more money but that also worked for the teamsters big pay increase. We were more concerned about the funding but it was not the teamsters priority. If they were concerned about unity why not equalize all the pensions- insurance benefits- so everybody is close to being on the same page. We had 200 outstanding violations in our building and the BA was not to be seen ? They are finally addressing them with a new aggressive BA. My beef is that they gave themselves a 20% pay increase with out a vote ? In Central States they have so many restrictions on what you can do or earn after retiring and receiving teamster benefits but in other plans they just can`t work for Ups again ?! An acctuary looks at the contribution history and shakes his head - where did the money go ? You should have a nice retirement for that $ We hired the teamsters to work for "US" When you hear of double and triple pensions - better insurance - better pay ! Thats not how this is suppose to be. We never have heard from Hoffa on the Performance of Central States, as a matter of fact they have tried their best to hide all information on the fund ! Court orders still haven`t resulted in open books. I would like to see where the $ goes and i am sure you would too especially after these initial cuts. If its true all of us would like to see the funds performance. I personally have my geese in a row as for housing - investing - emergency $ ! Social security and the pension would be very nice additions. I am counting on both too. If someone can`t fix it i am willing to make the necessary changes to acheive this ! Who knows the company might offer the last time pension again ? No one will know till the last minute anyhow.
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