251 United Action Slate

[251]

HAHAHAHAHAHA, OH OH, WAIT HAHAHAHAHAHAHA BECAUSE HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I MEAN HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dude, do you really think proper grammer is the point of that post or did you choose to ignore the point?


I vote for Integrity.

No. I got the point. But MY point is, someone with an IQ of 145 doesn't have to try for proper grammar. It just comes naturally. Also, someone with an IQ of 145 wouldn't mistake punctuation for grammar. They are two completely different things. But you knew that, must have been a Freudian slip.

 

[stink219]

The Asian Kid reference was a play on their stereotypically exceptional abilities in mathematics. Re read the post with that knowledge. It should make sense. Try and keep up, Stinky.

We all start somewhere. We all make rookie mistakes. It's how you recover that makes the difference. The 250k per year salary cuts should cover any rookie mistakes. They have 3 years to learn and correct the mistakes. That's a million and a quarter. They have room to make a few mistakes and STILL save the local serious cash. What I don't understand is, why are you so closed minded about their potential? Take a look at their platform. What about it seems like a bad idea to you? It seems to me like you are angry that they are exercising their right to run for office. Consider the state of our local, and then look at their platform. What about that comparison strikes you as a bad thing? (Not being sarcastic, I honestly do not know why you hate these guys so much)

I don't hate any of them. I think there are only 3 that work for UPS. But their lack of experience is what matters most. That so called money savings (which is speculative at best) will be eaten up alive in labor lawyers fees. UPS upper management has already exposed that if the UA slate wins, they are taking their chances with arbitration every time. "We only need to win once!" was the phrase I heard. I'm not sure if you know how UPS work, but discipline is common here. The same thing is happening in local 804. 85 UPSers out of work from firings due to minor mistakes from drivers. These new guys have zero arbitration experience. We haven't lost anyone due to a firing besides theft (not time theft). This is not the time or place for trial and error. There is a learning curve even with just one new executive let alone 10. You trust your pension and health with 10 newbies? There is absolutely no substitute for experience.

 

[Hawfuh Sux]

UPS management hates TDU and will work with old guard hofficers to get them fired, that is a fact!

 

[stink219]

UPS management hates TDU and will work with old guard hofficers to get them fired, that is a fact!

Can you go back to sleep? Or did you not read what I said. Do the research. 804 has 600 unanswered grievances. 85 people out at UPS. Some over a year. 804, TDU local.

 

[kingOFchester]

Can you go back to sleep? Or did you not read what I said. Do the research. 804 has 600 unanswered grievances. 85 people out at UPS. Some over a year. 804, TDU local.

WOW, that is just not right!

 

[251]

I don't hate any of them. I think there are only 3 that work for UPS. But their lack of experience is what matters most. That so called money savings (which is speculative at best) will be eaten up alive in labor lawyers fees. UPS upper management has already exposed that if the UA slate wins, they are taking their chances with arbitration every time. "We only need to win once!" was the phrase I heard. I'm not sure if you know how UPS work, but discipline is common here. The same thing is happening in local 804. 85 UPSers out of work from firings due to minor mistakes from drivers. These new guys have zero arbitration experience. We haven't lost anyone due to a firing besides theft (not time theft). This is not the time or place for trial and error. There is a learning curve even with just one new executive let alone 10. You trust your pension and health with 10 newbies? There is absolutely no substitute for experience.

Some valid points there. My honest concern is, who is going to take over when Jojo retires? He has earned some decent pensions, and he has the time in to hang up the suit anytime he pleases. What then? There are rumors of the Membership slate dumping KR, (Teamster.net) I don't know if you go on that message board at all, but there was a 251 thread that was started by one of their own supporters saying that Jojo should have dumped KR months ago. Apparently the guy the UA slate have running against KR for president/BA of the Hospital is well liked and respected over there. That's bad news, the sleeping giant has awoken, and put up one of their own as a solid candidate for President. That's 2,500 potential votes. Plus 3 running from the second biggest barn in the local, I hear they have a lot of support over there as well. This is going to be a very tough election for the Membership slate, and from what I hear, they haven't even started campaigning yet! There were 5 UA guys at my barn 6 months ago campaigning, and they have been back twice since. What is the Membership slate waiting for? I doubt they are THAT confident of a victory, given the facts of the opposition, and the results of the vote count from the proposed bylaws change. It's almost like they don't even want to run...

 

[stink219]

Some valid points there. My honest concern is, who is going to take over when Jojo retires? He has earned some decent pensions, and he has the time in to hang up the suit anytime he pleases. What then? There are rumors of the Membership slate dumping KR, (Teamster.net) I don't know if you go on that message board at all, but there was a 251 thread that was started by one of their own supporters saying that Jojo should have dumped KR months ago. Apparently the guy the UA slate have running against KR for president/BA of the Hospital is well liked and respected over there. That's bad news, the sleeping giant has awoken, and put up one of their own as a solid candidate for President. That's 2,500 potential votes. Plus 3 running from the second biggest barn in the local, I hear they have a lot of support over there as well. This is going to be a very tough election for the Membership slate, and from what I hear, they haven't even started campaigning yet! There were 5 UA guys at my barn 6 months ago campaigning, and they have been back twice since. What is the Membership slate waiting for? I doubt they are THAT confident of a victory, given the facts of the opposition, and the results of the vote count from the proposed bylaws change. It's almost like they don't even want to run...

I think JB will stay for a few more. I know you may have some animosity towards KR and JB but they have done a lot of good here. JB eats and breaths this local. He has an unwavering work ethic. I see it first hand. I do not see the same drive in his opponent. I think the UA set up their own friend knowing he will fail. As far as who will take over when JB retires, there are some high caliber people learning the ropes and being groomed. And that's what it takes most times, a progression into higher positions. I wouldn't have an issue with a guy or two running for office. But the entire slate change scares me. Some of their BA's weren't even stewards. As a UPS employee, we essentially hand over 37,000 per year, beyond our salary for the local to run our pension and health. I don't feel comfortable with giving that to a new slate.
Understand something, I personally owe KR and JB a lot. You may not understand that but it's true. They have done more for me then my own father has.

 

[251]

​

Understand something, I personally owe KR and JB a lot. You may not understand that but it's true. They have done more for me then my own father has.

THAT makes perfect sense. I understand that more than you know. And I can't fault a guy for remaining loyal to someone who was like a father to him. Actually, I'd think a whole lot less of you if you turned against them if that is truly the case. But understand this, there are a lot of people out there that JB and KR have done NOTHING for, even when they had legitimate grievances. That has been my own personal experience. A very good friend of mine was told his best bet was to resign when he was facing a BS termination, even though his employer had broken multiple labor laws. I have seen the current regime work together with management to screw good, hardworking teamsters with families out of their jobs. I know these people personally. Now, that may be a hard pill to swallow, but it is the reality of the situation. Stories about the union screwing you tend to resonate louder and longer than the tales of them helping out their friends. And that's essentially the thing of it. JB and KR will break their backs and the rules to help their friends, those considered to be "On the inside", such as yourself. That only works for an elected official when the amount of people on the inside outnumber the amount of people on the outside looking in. And that may have been the case years ago, but not any more.

Listen, all I hope for, and if the winner is smart, they will heed this advice, but all I hope for is, once its over, and whichever slate is elected, we can heal the "Us" and "Them" divide, and become a brotherhood again. Unified. Because we are all Teamsters, no matter what your internal political views are, and if we do not present a unified front, we are screwed brother.

 

[stink219]

​
Listen, all I hope for, and if the winner is smart, they will heed this advice, but all I hope for is, once its over, and whichever slate is elected, we can heal the "Us" and "Them" divide, and become a brotherhood again. Unified. Because we are all Teamsters, no matter what your internal political views are, and if we do not present a unified front, we are screwed brother.

Then pray we don't end up like the other reform barns out there. I know JB will be making some tune-ups and major improvements. He already has. Whether some think it's just reactionary or not, it is already in place. As far as a complete regime change with UA, giving complete strangers 37k of my money is a gagged pill to swallow. And I pray that Local 251 doesn't end up like 804 or 805. Tragic in 2 different ways.

 

[BrownBrokeDown]

No. I got the point. But MY point is, someone with an IQ of 145 doesn't have to try for proper grammar. It just comes naturally. Also, someone with an IQ of 145 wouldn't mistake punctuation for grammar. They are two completely different things. But you knew that, must have been a Freudian slip.

Ok, let me try to explain this again to your brilliant mind. The fact is with a group as large as the one that posts to BC that it is almost statistically assured someone in the forum will have a higher IQ than you unless you are pushing 160+. Your generalizations of Stink based on the fact that he disagrees with you is absurd. Then to go on about your IQ simply to try to prove you are right shows that while you may have an IQ of 120, you are definately not using it here. A person's IQ is not pertinent to the discussion. The candidates merits versus the existing officers merits is what is relevent. Here I will give you an example to help you try to process it. Maybe you have seen in the past the psa's on kiddy shows talking about your mind is a muscle, exercise it.

There are 2 feeder loaders, one is a bodybuilder, the other is a skinny kid. There is a number of 150lb irregs to be loaded into their trailers. The skinny kid uses common sense and gets another loader to help him load the irregs. The bodybuilder thinks that he is superior so decides to load the irregs by himself. The skinny kid hears a really strange plop on the floor followed by a scream. He looks over and the bodybuilders nutsack is laying on the floor. Morale of the story: without common sense your IQ doesn't mean anything and your nutsack might wind up on the floor.

PS. Yes I did mean punctuation. I also find it extremely amusing that while I am working 2 jobs in the summer heat, you think I care about grammer and punctuation on a forum on the web.

 

[BrownBrokeDown]

I don't hate any of them. I think there are only 3 that work for UPS. But their lack of experience is what matters most. That so called money savings (which is speculative at best) will be eaten up alive in labor lawyers fees. UPS upper management has already exposed that if the UA slate wins, they are taking their chances with arbitration every time. "We only need to win once!" was the phrase I heard. I'm not sure if you know how UPS work, but discipline is common here. The same thing is happening in local 804. 85 UPSers out of work from firings due to minor mistakes from drivers. These new guys have zero arbitration experience. We haven't lost anyone due to a firing besides theft (not time theft). This is not the time or place for trial and error. There is a learning curve even with just one new executive let alone 10. You trust your pension and health with 10 newbies? There is absolutely no substitute for experience.

This should scare the crap of the whole country. If they get in and then precede to lose some arbitrations, this could set some very bad precedences for the rest of us.

 

[stink219]

I don't hate any of them. I think there are only 3 that work for UPS. But their lack of experience is what matters most. That so called money savings (which is speculative at best) will be eaten up alive in labor lawyers fees. UPS upper management has already exposed that if the UA slate wins, they are taking their chances with arbitration every time. "We only need to win once!" was the phrase I heard. I'm not sure if you know how UPS work, but discipline is common here. The same thing is happening in local 804. 85 UPSers out of work from firings due to minor mistakes from drivers. These new guys have zero arbitration experience. We haven't lost anyone due to a firing besides theft (not time theft). This is not the time or place for trial and error. There is a learning curve even with just one new executive let alone 10. You trust your pension and health with 10 newbies? There is absolutely no substitute for experience.

This should scare the crap of the whole country. If they get in and then precede to lose some arbitrations, this could set some very bad precedences for the rest of us.

And it boggles my mind that some Teamsters do not understand on how a simple arbitration loss can change a past practice for other buildings. If 10 people get in that have never done the job, look out people. It's like going to a hairdresser that never cut hair. Same as knowing a few lines in a contract doesn't make you a steward.

 

[251]

Ok, let me try to explain this again to your brilliant mind. The fact is with a group as large as the one that posts to BC that it is almost statistically assured someone in the forum will have a higher IQ than you unless you are pushing 160+. Your generalizations of Stink based on the fact that he disagrees with you is absurd. Then to go on about your IQ simply to try to prove you are right shows that while you may have an IQ of 120, you are definately not using it here. A person's IQ is not pertinent to the discussion. The candidates merits versus the existing officers merits is what is relevent. Here I will give you an example to help you try to process it. Maybe you have seen in the past the psa's on kiddy shows talking about your mind is a muscle, exercise it.

There are 2 feeder loaders, one is a bodybuilder, the other is a skinny kid. There is a number of 150lb irregs to be loaded into their trailers. The skinny kid uses common sense and gets another loader to help him load the irregs. The bodybuilder thinks that he is superior so decides to load the irregs by himself. The skinny kid hears a really strange plop on the floor followed by a scream. He looks over and the bodybuilders nutsack is laying on the floor. Morale of the story: without common sense your IQ doesn't mean anything and your nutsack might wind up on the floor.

PS. Yes I did mean punctuation. I also find it extremely amusing that while I am working 2 jobs in the summer heat, you think I care about grammer and punctuation on a forum on the web.

See, if you actually followed the progression of the thread, you would have noticed that Stink and I have made significant progress in understanding each others reasons for the positions we have taken, to the point where, in my opinion, the argument was settled. But you clearly missed that. Your ego is still bruised because you're not the smartest or wittiest guy in the thread anymore. Don't feel bad bro, you still have a better avatar than I do. Take that for what its worth.

By the way, I can't help but point out the hilarity of you taking the time to write out a 3 paragraph post letting me know that you could care less about what I say. How subtle of you. (P.S. its GrammAr. GrammER is a word that people in the deep south use when referring to their mothers mother.)

 

[251]

Then pray we don't end up like the other reform barns out there. I know JB will be making some tune-ups and major improvements. He already has. Whether some think it's just reactionary or not, it is already in place. As far as a complete regime change with UA, giving complete strangers 37k of my money is a gagged pill to swallow. And I pray that Local 251 doesn't end up like 804 or 805. Tragic in 2 different ways.

Not all reform barns are tanking. Even 804 is not as bad off as you described, aren't they in their second term now? I remember hearing that they were re-elected. At any rate, you can't judge them based on mistakes they haven't made yet. If they get in, it's our job to hold them accountable to the membership. And judging by their campaign platform, that is exactly what they want us to do. As far as arbitration, those are won or lost by the locals lawyer. They are the ones that advise the ST on what to drop and what to take to arbitration. As long as they have a good lawyer, I wouldn't worry about losing cases left and right. The battle for these guys will be enforcing the contract over at your barn. If they are successful in doing that, the discipline you have mentioned will fall off significantly. The steward training they mention in their platform will help tremendously with that. You say there is no substitute for experience. I agree with that. But there is also no substitute for knowledge. After all, knowledge is power. A steward should know verbatim not only the contract, but state and federal labor laws. Something I can assure you, MOST stewards in our local do not know. And neither does management at most of the barns. If you arm your stewards with knowledge that management does not have, and use that knowledge to win small battles on the shop floor, management will, in most cases, think twice before issuing discipline.

 

[stink219]

A steward should know verbatim not only the contract, but state and federal labor laws. Something I can assure you, MOST stewards in our local do not know. And neither does management at most of the barns. If you arm your stewards with knowledge that management does not have, and use that knowledge to win small battles on the shop floor, management will, in most cases, think twice before issuing discipline.

I don't think Stewards need to memorize exact language. That is what the BA is for. That's what the President if for. That's what the Sec/Tres is for. If you think verbatim is critical, I know for sure that at least 1 of the UA BA's will have a serious issue even remembering to wear the same colored socks. Nice guy but that's about the limit. He only has a few years left. I think he is in it for the easy ride. I think the UA structured their slate incorrectly. But here is the big question 251, What if the slate splits?

 

[BrownBrokeDown]

See, if you actually followed the progression of the thread, you would have noticed that Stink and I have made significant progress in understanding each others reasons for the positions we have taken, to the point where, in my opinion, the argument was settled. But you clearly missed that. Your ego is still bruised because you're not the smartest or wittiest guy in the thread anymore. Don't feel bad bro, you still have a better avatar than I do. Take that for what its worth.

By the way, I can't help but point out the hilarity of you taking the time to write out a 3 paragraph post letting me know that you could care less about what I say. How subtle of you. (P.S. its GrammAr. GrammER is a word that people in the deep south use when referring to their mothers mother.)

LMAO. ThE piont of the my psot wasn,t that i did.nt careabout what you siad, but that u neeed to plul your nsose out of the air annd stop with the evyreone is and idoit but me tlk: As this was piont, ti wsa immateiriial whhat ur porgess wthi Stink was,

UR cmment abot teamster,s becomin brotherhod agian is quite hipocratical. frist u wanna tlk sh?t abot peeple then let.s alll cum togethir and b bruthers agian:

 

[BrownBrokeDown]

Lol. 251 is a troll lets quit feeding him. He is so smart lets let him use his college degree with himself.

Yeah. Got to admit, I was thinking after that post that I was quickly becoming bored with the whole thing. It gave me a couple of laughs over the last couple of days, but the appeal was fading.

On a serious note, what is the primary problem in the locals where the reform (TDU) party wins? Is it the crappy representation on greivances/discipline? Money? Or is there funky stuff that goes on behind the scenes? All of the above?

I know that the crappy representation has been mentioned before, and I'm just wondering if it goes deeper.

 

[stink219]

They think crappy representation. Funny thing is most people in my local have no idea how easy they have it. Do you think calling out sick 95 times and still having a job is crappy representation? How about being fired for continued sleeping on the job and having the BA get your job back? How about being fired for stealing time by going to see a 2 hour movie on your one hour lunch every friday and getting your job back? There are even some so crazy, I can't even mention. I can speak for our UPS barn, we haven't lost a person yet besides stealing cellphones or drugs. I think that's impressive. Mind you the biggest complainers tend to be the people receiving a warning letter. It's crazy.

 

[251]

What if the slate splits?

Then the Hoffa boys and the reform boys had better learn how to play nice together...REALLY quick.

 

[Squint]

See, if you actually followed the progression of the thread, you would have noticed that Stink and I have made significant progress in understanding each others reasons for the positions we have taken, to the point where, in my opinion, the argument was settled. But you clearly missed that. Your ego is still bruised because you're not the smartest or wittiest guy in the thread anymore. Don't feel bad bro, you still have a better avatar than I do. Take that for what its worth.

By the way, I can't help but point out the hilarity of you taking the time to write out a 3 paragraph post letting me know that you could care less about what I say. How subtle of you. (P.S. its GrammAr. GrammER is a word that people in the deep south use when referring to their mothers mother.)

The term is "couldn't care less". You want the person to know that you haven't a care in the world less than the one he is evoking. BTW, my IQ is 141.