710 Votes No - 3 to 1 margin

[710 steward]

Slant

How are my retirement thoughts weakening the fund? I propose we split the $40 a year between the fund and our 401k's. After all that is still an increase for the fund, is it not? Have you ever taken $400 a week at 5% interest and compounded that for just 25 years? It comes out to just shy of one MILLION dollars!!!! Seriously, a million at the same 5% is a 50 thousand dollar a year payday without ever touching the principle. How's the $2800 a month 25 year pension look now?? We are the majority by 3 to 1 here guys. It's time for us to do what's right because Pat isn't. I was at the last meeting. Pat actually told everyone that they had it all wrong. He said its a good contract that we are all misguided by social media. I can read and add. No one is misguided here guys. It's not a bad contract, it's a horrible one. Someone please find me one honest to goodness thing in this proposal that we can look at and say at least that is better. It's not here guys and the amoun of money that isn't benefitting the membership is staggering. Just because Pat is saying no to our ideas doesn't mean anything. Remember he works for the majority and right now his proposal couldn't even get 700 yes votes. Think about folks. We work for UPS and Pat isnt working for us.

 

[babboo25]

Pat Flynn makes over $460,000 a year, time for the Flynn slate to be put out to pasture. Our BA makes over $140,000, not to mention the brand new gas guzzling Suburban he drives back and forth to Chicago. Union needs to trim some fat.

 

[browniehound]

Brownslave,

Could the problem be a " shared brotherhood" or another way of saying it socialism ----??

Is YOUR 30k a year being invested for YOUR retirement --or is it being shared by the many in THEIR retirements ??

Communism comes to mind also. Instead of U.S.S.R they call themselves T.U.S.L. Teamsters Union of Socialist Locals. No, obviously not the 30k is going to YOUR retirement. If it was, we'd all be multi-millionaires. Think about that the next time you think the teamsters union has YOUR best interests in mind.

Even the most inept investor would turn $400/week over 35 years into a couple of million dollars. Heck, you could throw a Great Recession in there and it would still work out.

Are you sure those numbers are right?

 

[Inthegame]

Few numbers here are accurate. $400 a week pension is todays number, it wasn't the amount 30 yrs ago so no you can't project todays contribution and expect it to have grown to some astronomical amount when it was much lower years ago.
The $40 is split between H&W and Pension, so Pension contribution will not increase by $200. If indeed 710 Steward is a steward, he or she needs to pay a little better attention to details before they make inaccurate statements. Members don't like wrong info.

 

[710 steward]

I was there when Pat was questioned about the amount and he never denied it. In fact he told the member questioning it to deal with it because it isn't going up and those were the exact figures being used.

Let's say you are correct and it is $20 into the fund and $20 into H/W. That still means UPS is paying $600 a week per employee into our funds without any increase anywhere.

Btw, I also did the math on $200 a week for 30 years at 5%. We haven't seen an amount that low in a decade at least. That number comes in just shy of 700 grand. That same 5% basically covers your pension. In fact one could draw 6% out of that fund for 30+ years and never run out of money. So thank you for going down this road. It only makes Pat and those who control the money look worse. So where did the increases go over the last decade????

Yes I am a steward. I am one that wants to make sure the word gets out that there are thousands of dollars that are not improving the lives and it's members.

 

[Inthegame]

I was there when Pat was questioned about the amount and he never denied it. In fact he told the member questioning it to deal with it because it isn't going up and those were the exact figures being used.

Of course he didn't deny $40 per year per member is going to the Funds because that's accurate. The point is you are inaccurate in your imagined $200 going to Pension and you claim to know what's going on. Read your proposal. It is in black and white.

Let's say you are correct and it is $20 into the fund and $20 into H/W. That still means UPS is paying $600 a week per employee into our funds without any increase anywhere.

I am correct so there's no need to play your "lets say" game. And you're still mixing apples and bricks. $600??? Do you have any idea what your bennys really cost? By the end of this deal, UPS will be paying over $900 per FT member per week into L710's Pension and H&W (TeamCare). You'll most likely see a Pension increase as that fund has done well following the '08 meltdown. H&W will be maintained at current levels with improved coverage as experience dictates, and better than anyone else you know. That comes from a Union negotiated contract, not individual bargaining.

Btw, I also did the math on $200 a week for 30 years at 5%. We haven't seen an amount that low in a decade at least. That number comes in just shy of 700 grand. That same 5% basically covers your pension. In fact one could draw 6% out of that fund for 30+ years and never run out of money. So thank you for going down this road. It only makes Pat and those who control the money look worse. So where did the increases go over the last decade????

Yes I am a steward. I am one that wants to make sure the word gets out that there are thousands of dollars that are not improving the lives and it's members.

So you think $200 was the contribution rate 30 yrs ago? You really need to do some research. I've been around awhile friend and in 6 years of retirement I'll draw more out than went in on my behalf. My family tends to live long so there's a good chance I'll be drawing 5X what went in and my wife gets the survivor benefit when I kick. A 401 is a good supplement but far from superior to a well run Pension.
Keep spreading your inaccuracies with your "getting the word out". You won't be a steward long.

 

[710 steward]

Who is individual bargaining? I absolutely understand that $200 has not been there since the inception of our contracts. Where exactly would you like to start? I also do my figures very conservatively at 5%. I do this as not to mislead anyone on what they deserve as opposed to what they are currently getting. Btw, when was it ok for ANY of these funds to be put into the market? We need steady gains to accurately project funds and to guarantee returns for our members. This is a pension and we shouldn't ever gamble with legacy costs.

Bottom line, if we are not getting a pension increase there needs to be an avenue for a retirement increase. So if your numbers are accurate then $20 should be split into H/W and pension and the other $20 can be.given to our 401k. It is that simple.

I have been a steward for over a decade. So going down that road honestly means nothing to me. If by the end of this contract $900 is going.in per employee then our.complaint is greater than I ever imagined.

 

[Inthegame]

Who is individual bargaining? I absolutely understand that $200 has not been there since the inception of our contracts. Where exactly would you like to start? I also do my figures very conservatively at 5%. I do this as not to mislead anyone on what they deserve as opposed to what they are currently getting. Btw, when was it ok for ANY of these funds to be put into the market? We need steady gains to accurately project funds and to guarantee returns for our members. This is a pension and we shouldn't ever gamble with legacy costs.

Bottom line, if we are not getting a pension increase there needs to be an avenue for a retirement increase. So if your numbers are accurate then $20 should be split into H/W and pension and the other $20 can be.given to our 401k. It is that simple.

I have been a steward for over a decade. So going down that road honestly means nothing to me. If by the end of this contract $900 is going.in per employee then our.complaint is greater than I ever imagined.

10 years a steward? Where do you think your Pension funds are, under a pillow? Do you ever read your annual Pension statement? The one that clearly states the asset allocation of invested funds?
Gambling with legacy costs? What is that supposed to mean?
Look buddy, if $40 is allocated per year, it's because $40 is needed to keep the Funds going so a Pension increase can occur, or H&W rising costs can be contained without loss of coverage or increased deductibles on members.
Your 401 contribution is on you. The Teamsters negotiate pension increases on the groups behalf, not the individual. Remember Mr steward, you're in a Union.
I'm pleased L710 shot this deal down. Non consecutive 4/10's or any 5 in 7 is insane, and a complete unnecessary give back, but your pension dream is unrealistic and no where near what a steward should be advocating. And you should know the benefit costs w/o some poster on BC explaining to you.
Have a ball trying to topple Flynn.

 

[710 steward]

Pension increases? What are those? We haven't had one in over 15 years. I do realize this fund is 88% funded. No matter how you spin this there are misappropriated funds. I am far from alone in my thoughts. How many people have worked for less than five years and either quit or were fired? That's free money my friend that never gets collected by the person that contributed towards your holy grail.

As far as toppling Flynn, I didn't realize I was trying to do that. From my vantage point he looks to be that all by himself. Especially when he continuously walks around telling the masses how they got it wrong and he is right. I have asked this question before and will ask it again.

What one item is better in this contract that wasn't in the last? To this point nobody has tried to answer that question.

 

[Addison Feeder Driver]

There is nothing better in the contract. Even the raises for the full scale drivers, they're decent, but less than last contract. The progression, 24/7 on call, seasonal making $6/hour more than full time, Healthcare, it's a terrible contract. I don't understand how anybody says it's a good contract. Nothing to improve working conditions. No language added against contractors taking our work.

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[Atomic_Smurf]

In fairness there is one thing better in this contract than the last. Starting wage for new hires. Its a trickle down consequence of Right-to-Work legislation but hey it's better than a 100% give back contract. Contrast that to the affect the Affordable Care Act has had on this contract & makes you wonder who's deciding what laws to support & which laws to oppose & who they're looking out for.

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[Addison Feeder Driver]

Atomic Smurf, I disagree. Starting wage for new hires is $17.25 now and $18.75 in the new contract, but seasonal non union drivers start at $23.00 and they get hourly pay for everything including mileage runs. They make far more than the union full time new hires. They average $1200 per week compared to $600 for the union new hires.

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[Atomic_Smurf]

Talking about starting wage for pt new-hires like most of us started out. Not existing employees going into driving, street hires etc. New pt hires got the first increase to the starting wage in decades, but I see what you are talking about.

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[jpf75]

they want to give them a .50 cent raise. they took out the $ 1.00 an hour raise after 90 days. this contract sucks.

 

[scisector9]

So what do you all think they will counter offer? 3 to 1 seems like a mandate if you will. When will we see 2nd ballots?
Thanks
Cheers

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[710 steward]

Addison

I hear what you are saying about hourly pay for new hires vs seasonal. I agree with what you are saying but I don't see this as a major issue. There are several reasons why I feel this way. New hires have insurance, they start their pension, and they start building vacation credits. So I understand the initial beginning weekly isn't where we all would like to see it, it isn't a deal breaker either.

We have some many other problems that this is a non issue for me. I hope you understand, but we need to focus on real 9.5 language, harassment, re bidding of full time work, and potentially Christmas Eve language. We definitely need a retirement increase whether it's pension or a 401k match. The list seems endless.

 

[Addison Feeder Driver]

9.5 is strictly a package car issue. Feeder has its own issues. Most package drivers look forward to becoming feeder drivers. In feeder almost every shift is over 9.5 hours. It's a waste of time trying to get more triple time, it won't happen.
I also strongly disagree with you that new hire wage isn't a top 3 issue. There are a ton of drivers affected by this. I already have ten years in the pension but that doesn't pay for my groceries now. It's sad that non union seasonal make so much more than full time teamsters. Many of them don't want to go full time.

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[_nevertoolate_6170_]

It's sad that non union seasonal make so much more than full time teamsters. Many of them don't want to go full time.

Are non-union seasonals being provided health insurance for themselves and their families?

 

[_nevertoolate_6170_]

New hires have insurance, they start their pension, and they start building vacation credits. So I understand the initial beginning weekly isn't where we all would like to see it, it isn't a deal breaker either.

New hires dont 'have' health insurance. At least not part timers. Under the 2008 contract it takes 12 months before personal coverage kicks in and 18 months for spouse and dependents. And of course, it takes 5 years to become vested in the pension.

I'd like to point out that the future of the teamsters and indeed UPS itself is inherently dependent upon new hires. Part-timers are the majority of the workforce and the source of most full time employee candidates. Largely, many part time employees begin their careers while in college or at the very least, sometime after high school. So what one has to wonder is: what draws these young people to these generally physically demanding jobs and what keeps them there through all kinds of weather and fluctuations in volume, etc until a better job opens up? Surely wages are A factor.

It seems reasonable to assume that as the expectations of the incoming class of employees are lowered so will they continue to degrade as these people transition into full time or long term part-time positions. It's the old slowly-to-boiling pot in which sits a frog trick. That's why it's important to fortify and preserve the integrity of awareness and expectations of the people on the very cusp of entry into the UPS workforce. So as to notice that the heat is rising before its too late to stop the boil

 

[Booblebrown]

Hey 710 Steward, your hitting a nerve on "IN the GAME" I'm thinking he must be an official "IN the UNION" He gets a little touchy when you want to talk about those misinvested pension funds. I too like the idea of the 401k, but don't think Pat and the boys are going to let go of that fat bag of pension money. As soon as UPS handed over the financial amount to be distributed over the life of the contract, the teamsters handed over the contract book and a highlighter and said" add and delete anything you want , I'll take care of the rest". Its a crying shame that the members dont seem to be happy with the new language and when the teamsters come and visit they dont want to listen to their members. Great information! I was dabbling in those pension numbers myself, but never imagined the large sum of money when a simple 5% was figured in. Its staggering to comprehend! I know of an Arizona local getting $5,000 a month for 30 years. Thats 60,000 a year. I can't say what they are contributing though.