9/11 redux

[BLACKBOX]

9/11 conspiracy? I still trying to figure out why hot dog buns come 8 to a pack and hot dogs 10 to a pack! This is conspiracy right before your eyes.

 

[klein]

9/11 conspiracy? I still trying to figure out why hot dog buns come 8 to a pack and hot dogs 10 to a pack! This is conspiracy right before your eyes.

I suppose, they want to introduce double dogs, soon. Like in hamburgers.

 

[1989]

No hoaxter...
but, I think it could have been avoided.
Your CIA not doing it's job, just like they didn't do in Iraq.

Are you saying we shudda finished the job in '91?

 

[klein]

Are you saying we shudda finished the job in '91?

Ofcourse. Schwarzkopf wanted to keep going.
Too bad you didn't. Would have saved you a few trillion.

 

[john346]

I just sent Charlie Sheen an email describing what am idiot I think he is. Rosie apparently does not list hers, or I wouldn't be back so soon. I was truly hoping to get one of these so called Truthers to help us out with their side of their detritus.

 

[JonFrum]

It's a reflex from our foreign policies I fear. Ever since Ike (not the friggin non existent UPS jacket), Eisenhower backed Israel's play on taking up residence on Palestine property, we've been the target for middle Eastern attacks. Nixon putting the Shaw of Iran on our payroll didn't help too much either. But in defense of the good old red white & blue, at least we are in it, no fence riding for us. eh?

The Shaw of Iran.

I like that.

When the Shah of Iran died, he became past tense. So referring to him now as the Shaw of Iran seems appropriate, and has a nice ring to it.

If it catches on, remember folks, you saw it here first!!!

 

[john346]

Well, thank you! I guess a miss spelled word at 11:00 pm trumps the entire thread. I / We all need to take the thread to a new direction on what an idiot John 346 is. Thanks JonFrum. Where do we begin? Ass.

 

[cachsux]

Well, thank you! I guess a miss spelled word at 11:00 pm trumps the entire thread. I / We all need to take the thread to a new direction on what an idiot John 346 is. Thanks JonFrum. Where do we begin? Ass.

Uhm...misspelled is misspelled as miss spelled.

 

[john346]

Uhm...misspelled is misspelled as miss spelled.

I'm reminded why it was that I stayed off of this wonderful site for so long. It's apparently my coworkers that find fault in everything, and can not stay on topic. ADD or ADHD? Regardless, I think it's time for me to leave again, and seek a more understanding place that can stay with the main topic. CIAO!!!

 

[toonertoo]

I have heard some strange thoughts from people who I didnt know were capable of thought, lately.
But no matter what Obama did it.

 

[cachsux]

I'm reminded why it was that I stayed off of this wonderful site for so long. It's apparently my coworkers that find fault in everything, and can not stay on topic. ADD or ADHD? Regardless, I think it's time for me to leave again, and seek a more understanding place that can stay with the main topic. CIAO!!!

We are all understanding of each other here hence most of us can take a joke.

P.s. Ciao is Hello,Arrivederci is goodbye.

 

[The Other Side]

Its sad to think that there are idiots around that actually believe this. I was off work that day when I was driving my son to school and heard about the first attack. At first it was thought that it was some kind of terrible accident. I went home and turned the TV on and watched in horror as the second plane hit the second tower. Everybody knew our country was under attack then.

I can't understand why some people are so stupid to think that this is some kind of conspiracy to force our country to go to war so somebody could make a profit. "Fire doesn't melt steel" is what Rosie McDonnell said. Well how does she think steel is made in the first place? She never heard of welding or the high temperature of thousands of gallons of jet fuel burning for a couple of hours? People like her and Charlie Sheen are insane in my opinion.

Scratch,

without going into a ton of facts and supportive data, I would like to address one point of your argument.

I highlighted the part that needs addressing.

First, You must quote Rosie Odonnell correctly.. what she said was the "temp of jet fuel" was not HOT enough to melt steel.. This is a fact. Jet fuel on commercial airliners does NOT burn hotter then 1100 degrees friend.

Even if mixed with various furniture, paper etc etc, it will STILL NOT burn hotter than 1100 degrees. In addition, experts from the goverment have already backed up her claim by saying that the majority of fuel available to burn, incinerated within the first 10 mins of the impact as demonstrated by the huge fireball exiting the building on impact.

Now, to the point, it wasnt ROSIES POINT, she was merely stating claims made by various scientists and experts who have investigated 911.

The temp required to melt the steel in the WTC had to exceed 3500 degrees in order to just make it soft, it would have required sustained heat for over 12 hours in the same location in order to melt steel into liquid.

Now, these arent statements made by loons, its just science.

The fuel on comercial airliners is DESIGNED to keep the heat down...keeping it down during crashes saves lives..this is why its designed to burn at less than 1100 degrees.

Now, if you accept the theory that the fuel couldnt burn hot enough to melt 4 foot thick steel, then how did the building come down?

This is the question she is asking everyone to consider. There are many experts worldwide who doubt the 911 explanation based upon pure SCIENCE, not politics.

There is a ton of information available for review from experts from MIT and the scientific community.

You have to understand science and the properties of steel, titanium and aluminum to fully comprehend the arguments being presented.

If you could convince anyone that 1100 degrees was hot enough to melt steel into iron ore (which is the case in the WTC) then you would be the first to demonstrate that 911 defied science.

Steel beams were reduced into globs of iron ore, and thats just plain impossible to occur without the introduction of another element in the heat.

Again, this is science, and without the knowledge of steel properties, to argue with you would be useless.

We all have an opinion on this matter. On the surface, the BUSH administrations explainations seem plausible, on the scietific side, in all three attacks ( flight 93, WTC and Pentagon) the FACTS just dont add up.

Who was responsible? Who knows.

Is easier to just accept what we are told by our goverment and the media.

If "we" as citizens dont question what happened, then we have to accept whatever is given to us. ALl the experts want "us" as people to do is ask questions. Check out the tests, look at the facts and evidence.

The opposing side (the republicans) want to just label anyone looking into 911 events as kooks.

WKMAC posted something of real value recently that rings of a similar nature.

Operation Northwoods is a de-classified operation that was almost carried our by our goverment back in the early 60's, and the nature of this operation was similar to 911.

The point of this operation was to convince the american public that we were under "imminent attack" and we would have needed to attack CUBA because of the staged attacks on U.S. interests. These staged attacks would be carried out by our military and CIA operatives.

This only highlights that it is NOT out of the question for our goverment to be involved with "self" attacks.

This all being said, the fact that Rosie merely stated a scientific fact doesnt make her a kook, it in fact, makes her informed.



p.s. Rosie in her personal life is a kook, but thats just my opinion and that alone does not disqualify her from having an intelligent opinion on 911.

 

[Jones]

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°friend, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°friend). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength — and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°friend," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°friend.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

 

[stevetheupsguy]

opinion on 911.

Interesting.

source

Interesting.

Funny how so many people can see one thing happen and yet tell differing stories of what they saw.

 

[sosocal]

This thread is just crazy....Particularly when you consider the audience and authors....EVERYONE KNOWS THAT 9/11 WAS A CONSPIRACY BETWEEN THE TEAMSTERS AND UPS TOP MANAGEMENT - NOW LETS PUT AN END TO THIS NONSENSE!!!!

 

[scratch]

I am well aware of what high temperatures do to metal. A long time ago I used to SMAW(electric arc), TIG, and oxy-acetylene weld. I never said that the fire melted the beams, but anybody with any kind of knowledge would know that high temperature affects the strength of metal and with all the weight of the many floors above the impact sight, it was a miracle those two buildings stood as long as they did so that most of the people had time to get out.

The buildings were both designed to be strong enough to take the initial impact. Back in WW2 a B-25 bomber hit the Empire State building and it survived. If the fire suppression systems weren't damaged or the NYFD had been able to access the impact sight and pour enough water on it, those two towers would have stayed up and the people trapped on the top floors would have survived.

I just think you have some people who are so obsessed with hating George Bush that they will believe anything that they think can somehow be blamed on him. GW recruited Saudi terrorists to hijack four airplanes and fly them into buildings and then set off explosions in the basements to bring down the two towers and the buildings around them? Only a mentally deranged person can believe something like that in my opinion.

 

[klein]

I am well aware of what high temperatures do to metal. A long time ago I used to SMAW(electric arc), TIG, and oxy-acetylene weld. I never said that the fire melted the beams, but anybody with any kind of knowledge would know that high temperature affects the strength of metal and with all the weight of the many floors above the impact sight, it was a miracle those two buildings stood as long as they did so that most of the people had time to get out.


I just think you have some people who are so obsessed with hating George Bush that they will believe anything that they think can somehow be blamed on him. GW recruited Saudi terrorists to hijack four airplanes and fly them into buildings and then set off explosions in the basements to bring down the two towers and the buildings around them? Only a mentally deranged person can believe something like that in my opinion.

Totally agree with you Scratch !
Only idiots believe the earth is a flat surface, too.

 

[cachsux]

Totally agree with you Scratch !
Only idiots believe the earth is a flat surface, too.

Klein,remember to stay back from the edge now. Especially if you`ve been drinking.