And the BROWNOUT continues

[TimeForChange]

Some human beings actually enjoy face to face communication where they can interact with each other.

OK. But these meetings will not be on equal terms, because one party will have had a number of days to read and study the TA, while the rank-and-file members will walk in pretty much unprepared, except for some who have learned some information from the internet.

Why not allow all concerned to have time to read and study the TA before the sales meetings? It can take normal people time to come up with good questions about information buried in lengthy documents.

 

[oldupsman]

OK. But these meetings will not be on equal terms, because one party will have had a number of days to read and study the TA, while the rank-and-file members will walk in pretty much unprepared, except for some who have learned some information from the internet.

Why not allow all concerned to have time to read and study the TA before the sales meetings? It can take normal people time to come up with good questions about information buried in lengthy documents.

It won't be a sales meeting. At least not at our local. The information will be presented. Then you can ask all the questions you want. The ballots aren't going to come out the next day.
You'll have at least a week to study the contract until you even receive your ballot. For most of the folks here with information problems your problem
seems to be more of a local problem than a national problem. Seems like a lot of you younger folks need to get more involved with your local.

 

[Delivered]

Its 2013, the TA was not typed out on carbon paper. It was not chiseled in concrete tablets. It is an electronic document with the click of a mouse it can be sent to millions of people in the blink of an eye. Every Local and every UPS Teasmster should already have a electronic copy if they so choose. It's understandable that all the info regarding a "New Health" plan has not been created or documented. But I guarantee you the H&W section of the TA is not a blank page.

We don't need meetings with our locals regarding Bullet Points that International want to drive home, we need all the information to make an informed and educated decision about things that will affect us the rest of our days

 

[Catatonic]

Seems like a lot of you younger folks need to get more involved with your local.

Or go through a contract once to understand the timing of key milestones.

I doubt if even the Teamsters or UPS really understand what is in the contract yet (Terms and Conditions).

What has been agreed to is at high level and now the lawyers put the bullet-points into contractual language.

Experienced negotiators know that verbal agreements get clarified once it gets put in legal language.

If anyone was to publish the Tentative Agreement (not the contract) at this time, the only thing for sure is that the terms and conditions would change.

 

[InsideUPS]

Or go through a contract once to understand the timing of key milestones.

I doubt if even the Teamsters or UPS really understand what is in the contract yet (Terms and Conditions).

What has been agreed to is at high level and now the lawyers put the bullet-points into contractual language.

Experienced negotiators know that verbal agreements get clarified once it gets put in legal language.

If anyone was to publish the Tentative Agreement (not the contract) at this time, the only thing for sure is that the terms and conditions would change.

Not to mention that the pension language will only be abbreviated in the actual contract. It will take much longer for UPS to actually compose the details of the pension language into the "Summary Plan Document" (SPD). Same goes for the complete healthcare schedule of benefits.....

 

[stink219]

Its 2013, the TA was not typed out on carbon paper. It was not chiseled in concrete tablets. It is an electronic document with the click of a mouse it can be sent to millions of people in the blink of an eye. Every Local and every UPS Teasmster should already have a electronic copy if they so choose. It's understandable that all the info regarding a "New Health" plan has not been created or documented. But I guarantee you the H&W section of the TA is not a blank page.

We don't need meetings with our locals regarding Bullet Points that International want to drive home, we need all the information to make an informed and educated decision about things that will affect us the rest of our days

And there are still Teamster barns that have to make out dues checks and mail them or drop them at the hall. You STILL don't get it! ARE YOU NOT LISTENING???????????

 

[sortaisle]

...sigh...both sides go off the deep end. Lemme clarify. You won't get information on your local agreement until all locals have settled. They aren't going to release national information for people to muck up in their LOCAL meetings. They want to have the information aggregated for your LOCAL situation and the best way to do that is to hold a LOCAL meeting. It takes time to get the information together. The logistics are more puzzling than you think and it's far from a click of a mouse button. Besides, walk into your local union office and behold the joke it probably is. Ours is an old building with old computers and even older administrative assistants. IBT isn't a technological marvel by a long shot. They aren't withholding information to be evil, they're withholding information to make sure it's correct for your local area. That's called being responsible.

 

[soberups]

Patience is a virtue.

 

[Inthegame]

Its 2013, the TA was not typed out on carbon paper. It was not chiseled in concrete tablets. It is an electronic document with the click of a mouse it can be sent to millions of people in the blink of an eye. Every Local and every UPS Teasmster should already have a electronic copy if they so choose. It's understandable that all the info regarding a "New Health" plan has not been created or documented. But I guarantee you the H&W section of the TA is not a blank page.

We don't need meetings with our locals regarding Bullet Points that International want to drive home, we need all the information to make an informed and educated decision about things that will affect us the rest of our days

Have you ever gone to a union meeting? You're confusing the IBT with TDU when you speak of bullet points. This entire agreement will be explained page by page by every local. And if you're unavailable to attend, every union employee will get the entire agreement sent to their home for hours of enjoyable reading (The IBT doesn't have millions of e-mail addresses).

 

[Delivered]

The IBT can text me every time little Jimmy is going to be on the TV. But other that than we're forced to wait to read a Xerox copy sometime in mid to late May. I guess we need to have our dues increased so the IBT can purchase more bandwidth so we could actually download it from teamster.org

 

[stink219]

Or you can apply to a non union shop and not get a choice at all. If your unhappy with your union, try FedEx. Walmart is anti union. Try them. Heard its an amazing company to work for.

 

[realbrown1]

Or you can apply to a non union shop and not get a choice at all. If your unhappy with your union, try FedEx. Walmart is anti union. Try them. Heard its an amazing company to work for.

Or the union can stop making everything a damn secret and they can come into the 21st century and use the damn internet like everyone else.

 

[toonertoo]

Call me green, how can you have a tentative agreement before its finalized? As a dues paying member I want it now. It is my contract, not theirs. They will still suck the same money out of us, and for what, I would like to know. Why should it be a secret from us?

 

[kingOFchester]

All I am worried about is not having enough time to do my due diligence before entering into a 5 year contract. We need the time to fully understand all details of the contract, including the "enhanced healthcare".

All I am asking from the union is a timeline. When will they release the TA? When will they release the "enhanced healthcare"? When will they send out the ballots? We need the time to do our due diligence and then enough time to spread the information to our brothers who remain in the dark by choice.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it - Aristotle"

 

[sortaisle]

It should be the same with most folk, but I'm going to vote based on 2 things. 1. All the information is there for healthcare, 2. it's fair for ALL UPSERS not just my area that is in it's own little fairy tale land of 10% below the national average for cost of living. It should be fair for New Yorkers as much as Arkansas. Local Addendums and Riders may vary of course...speaking of the National.

 

[pretender]

Call me green, how can you have a tentative agreement before its finalized? As a dues paying member I want it now. It is my contract, not theirs. They will still suck the same money out of us, and for what, I would like to know. Why should it be a secret from us?

They have to first convert it from plain english to legalese.

 

[sortaisle]

They have to first convert it from plain english to legalese.

Actually it's from legalese to...well...contract language.

 

[stink219]

Call me green, how can you have a tentative agreement before its finalized? As a dues paying member I want it now. It is my contract, not theirs. They will still suck the same money out of us, and for what, I would like to know. Why should it be a secret from us?

There are some supplements that are not even agreed to yet, so don't think a strike is out of the woods. As for your information, a tentative agreement is just that. The intent of language is agreed upon so far, not the written word. An example would be, hall and John McDevitt may agree that we will not have production standards. The written word comes to be:
1) The parties agree that the principle of a fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay shall be observed at times and employees shall perform their duties in a manner that best represents the Employer’s interest.
Or
2) The parties agree that the principle of a fair day’s work for a fair day’s pay shall be observed at all times and employees shall perform their duties in a manner that best represents the Employer’s interest.

One word changes the intent.

Your going to get to read your asses off around May 7th. Hold your horses. There are many changes to make. This is how the process has always worked. We just now have more smart phones in our time. There are many people to satisfy. Everyone has different concerns. hall has made many people's lives much better the past 16+ years. It's not Hoffa, it wasn't Carey. It's always been Hall. Wait a few more days.

 

[bbsam]

Boy that sounds familiar, like from another thread...like verbatim. Is this coming from a Teamsters Q&A pamphlet on the upcoming agreement? Not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[stink219]

I posted it on both because the person asked the same question in 2 threads.