MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
It was a choke hold. Even the medical examiner concluded that. Check your facts before you post.
Any Law Can Ultimately Kill
- Thread starter wkmac
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oldngray
nowhere special
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I always love guessing who has left a negative feedback before I view it, I'm almost always right. It's always D.O.D.O
I guess disagreeing with the cops is easier than just admitting that Garner was wrong to resist arrest and should have put his hands up, stopped fighting, and deal with the charges that he deserved
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Who's disagreeing with the cops?
The choke hold is on video it's laughable to even suggest it didn't happen.
You know who I trust more than a video......an officer of the law, AND his union standing behind him saying they don't feel it was a choke hold.
Does it appear to be a choke hold? Yes.
Should that dumb dumb put his hands behind his back once he was told he was being arrested? Yes.
This story would be a HUGE non issue if he would have just listened.
Oh, and YOU'RE disagreeing with the police. The police officers union said they don't feel it was a choke hold, and you hit DISAGREE as the feedback to the post referring to that link, therefore you disagree with the police who said they do not feel it was a choke hold.
The more you know...
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DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
It's on video, there's nothing to discuss.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
http://time.com/3618279/eric-garner-chokehold-crime-staten-island-daniel-pantaleo/
On Aug. 1, a New York City medical examiner determined that the cause of death in the Garner case was “homicide,” specifically the neck compressions from the Pantaleo’s chokehold and “the compression of [Garner’s] chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,” according to spokeswoman, Julie Bolcer.
On Aug. 1, a New York City medical examiner determined that the cause of death in the Garner case was “homicide,” specifically the neck compressions from the Pantaleo’s chokehold and “the compression of [Garner’s] chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police,” according to spokeswoman, Julie Bolcer.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I never said anything about profiling, or stop and frisk, or even the inherent fairness of the law (selling untaxed cigarettes) that he was accused of breaking. There is room for legitimate debate and disagreement concerning these subjects.
What I said was that he made a conscious decision to resist arrest and it was that decision alone that caused the altercation with police that ultimately cost him his life.
When the cops say "you are under arrest" then the law is that you must submit to being arrested. Period. You will have your day in court, you will get your lawyer, you are entitled to due process of law, a presumption of innocence, and a trial by a jury of your peers. What you are not entitled to do....is to fight with the police whose job it is to enforce the law. Eric Garner knew this. He had been arrested 30 times before and he knew the drill. He made a choice to break the law and the result was an accident that cost him his life.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
3 questions:
1. If it was 8:30 at night and you were driving a white van with no windows in the back, how did the officer know what color your skin was prior to pulling you over?
2. Was the van a package car painted in FedEx colors, with a commercial plate...or was it plain white conventional panel van with standard plates?
3 When you cooperated with the officer by producing a valid drivers license, registration and proof of insurance....did he harass or threaten or assault you in any way? Were you issued a citation of any kind?
I can tell you that I would want the cops to stop and question anyone who was driving a plain white panel van in a suspicious manner around my neighborhood...regardless of the ethnic background of the driver. And I would also want them to treat the driver with the same courtesy and cooperation that he treated them with....also regardless of his ethnic background. That's called "police work" and its how communities are kept safe.
moreluck
golden ticket member
The takedown is on video.....you are only using the term 'chokehold' because you wished it had happened.
No. He stopped by my house at 8:30 pm as I was putting my kids to bed. The "suspicious" incident took place at 2:30 pm.
I was looking for a call in pickup. Stopped at a house, no package outside. Knocked on the door and waited. Nothing. Started walking back to van (FedEx's Magnets on side, Fedex uniform, vest Fedex across the back). As I do I'm looking at the pickup information and realize that I'm one road too far west.
Door opens. Lady calls out, "Can I help you?"
I explain everything as above. Apologize for bothering her and take off thinking nothing more about it until 8:30 pm.
The cop was professional enough as he explained what the lady "saw". I stopped him and informed him, "Yeah, I KNOW what she saw. I know EXACTLY what she saw. She SAW nothing suspicious, ignored my explanation, witnessed no crime...and promptly called the police."
That's the world we live in. If he's doing his job, why not call Fedex and make sure that vehicle is leased onto the company? What was the "suspicious activity"? Are you telling me that if I'm white it all goes down the same? I think if you're honest, you know it doesn't. The only thing "suspicious" is a black guy driving around the Illinois rural countryside in a white van. That's not suspicious, but it's enough to get an investigation going. That's not the exception, it's the rule: black=suspicion.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
You were most certainly the victim of racial profiling and racism in this instance, but it was the woman who called the cops on you that was the bigot, not the cop who was just doing his job by responding to a complaint. By your own admission the cop behaved professionally, due in no small part to the fact that you behaved the same way.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
When a 6-3" 350 lb man decides to resist arrest, its going to get ugly regardless of the method used to subdue him.
dumbmuthertrucker
DR FD
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
I agree. I'm still not sure why deny that it was a choke hold though.
moreluck
golden ticket member
Because knowledgeable people who have been trained in the chokehold have said it was not a choke hold. Experts say no, you say yes, I'll believe the experts on this one.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
The autopsy doesn't lie.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
And there it is. It was a choke hold, the video and autopsy show it.The autopsy doesn't lie.
The problem comes in how choke hold is defined in regards to their patrol guide. The NYPD basically redefined the term choke hold so their officers could get away with it.
From the CCRB report on the choke hold rule:
"This pragmatic redefinition of the rule in response to the NYPD’s systematic refusal to
impose discipline in all but the most severe chokehold cases, evolved into an unwritten, much less protective definition: actual and sustained interference with breathing was substituted for the Patrol Guide’s clear and unequivocal prohibition of any pressure to the neck which “may” inhibit breathing. In essence, inadequate disciplinary practices transplanted the heart of the chokehold rule during a period in which, as the number of chokehold complaints suggests, chokehold incidents were increasing. The NYPD’s blanket prohibition of chokeholds should be restored and uniformly enforced."
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/downloads/pdf/Chokehold Study_20141007.pdf
Sportello
Well-Known Member
I was pulled over by the police in a rental van many years ago. I had a helper. We were both dressed in browns. I was questioned for too long, and a call was made to my center. The jerk wanted to know why I was leaving packages on the porches of a very upscale neighborhood. I was harassed. I was told to shut up. I was not arrested. It was not 'police work'. It was a bored cop with a big ego. I am white. Had I been Black, who knows.
I grew up in a racially divided city that experienced riots in 1968. To deny that race plays a role is to deny reality. It's two worlds, bro.
The autopsy doesn't lie.
My hips don't lie....
Less about race, more about upbringing. If you are brought up to be respectful of the cops, even if you disagree with them, then you'll be good. If you were brought up to view them as negative power abusing people, well then youll be horribly disrespectful, which is something a wise person would not be. You can disagree while still being respectful...just ask TOS
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