APWA presence across the country

[1980]

Sorry any122 but Im from metro jersey and I hate to tell you but 99.9999 percent of the guys would not know who the APWA is nor do they care to know.IBT and our Local has provided for us here with lots of support and a 3700 a month pension.You will look back at this as a waste of time but Ill give you credit for trying.

 

[mittam]

Sorry any122 but Im from metro jersey and I hate to tell you but 99.9999 percent of the guys would not know who the APWA is nor do they care to know.IBT and our Local has provided for us here with lots of support and a 3700 a month pension.You will look back at this as a waste of time but Ill give you credit for trying.

be very carefull with what the teamsters thugs tell you about pension they lie, they also will give you one thing and take it away from you later,do the math get a UPS mechanics pension statement and see what it is with the same contributions makes your $3700 a month look a little sickly, I have a statement from one of our mechanics that will make $10,000 a month when he goes at 62 or over $11,000 if he stays to 65 why the difference? I will tell you why 40% is all you get of whatUPS puts in for your retirement, that's right other teamsters get the most of your money the other 60%, go ahead vote in the teamsters and get the royal screw job from them

 

[wildgoose]

Sorry any122 but Im from metro jersey and I hate to tell you but 99.9999 percent of the guys would not know who the APWA is nor do they care to know.IBT and our Local has provided for us here with lots of support and a 3700 a month pension.You will look back at this as a waste of time but Ill give you credit for trying.

New Jersey gets $3700 and New Yorkers are getting $6800 ! Whats that tell ya ?

 

[1980]

New York local 804 gets 3500. This local is NYC. Other locals do get more but they contribute their option week to the pension plan.Each local is in control of their own plan.To my knowledge the IBT international does not run any locals pension plan .Like life ,u get what u put into it!

 

[any122]

Sorry any122 but Im from metro jersey and I hate to tell you but 99.9999 percent of the guys would not know who the APWA is nor do they care to know.IBT and our Local has provided for us here with lots of support and a 3700 a month pension.You will look back at this as a waste of time but Ill give you credit for trying.

1980 If you work for frieght well metro NJ has very few employees compared t upstate NY.I know so don't even try to tell me different.IF you would like I can list the terminals.But just to let you know 3700 a month in metro nj or ny won't get a card board box under a bridge.But if your happy have at it I still would recomend you take a hard look at the APWA or you will be in the same boat as the rest of the under funded IBT pension plans.Just a matter of time.The majority of UPS frieght soon will be members of the APWA and are happy that we have a better more viable secure choice with a union started buy two of are own.

 

[hoser]

Thanks Brett, I'm honored to have my name listed along side these fine people. Good luck with your investments, seriously.

RRSPs and saving for one's future is a lot better of an idea than trusting your money to pension fund. Because we know how all of those end up when the economy recesses or when large portions of the labour force are retiring at once.

 

[mikey1947]

I dont know who Gman is trying to kid about APWA going strong in Tennessee! It is not going strong and only a very few where I work are even looking at it serioulsy! What happens, when and if ever the APWA is certified, to the people with 20 years plus and to the retirees who depend on their hard earned pensions? Is the APWA going to guarantee their money will be there, hell no their not they will tell you that they will have to go to court to get control of the pension money and what will happen to the pension when we stop paying into it! Van and Danny will tell you it is guaranteed to be there but what about the Pension Reform Bill and the Red Zone Amendment? In my opinion we need to try and fix what we already have first! We all need to remember the retirees that made UPS what it is today! Are we going to let them down? I will never vote for the APWA because they dont care!

 

[3brownstars]

RRSPs and saving for one's future is a lot better of an idea than trusting your money to pension fund. Because we know how all of those end up when the economy recesses or when large portions of the labour force are retiring at once.

I was not being sarcastic to Brett, I do wish him the best of luck. I also agree with you, I wish the company would give me that $214.00 each week so I could invest it myself. Make it a direct deposit into a 401(k) or similar type account. The bottom line is still the same, $214/wk is retirement money, my paycheck is for me to do with what I wish.

 

[hoser]

I was not being sarcastic to Brett, I do wish him the best of luck. I also agree with you, I wish the company would give me that $214.00 each week so I could invest it myself. Make it a direct deposit into a 401(k) or similar type account. The bottom line is still the same, $214/wk is retirement money, my paycheck is for me to do with what I wish.

pardon me sir. i thought you were being sarcastic, taking into account the sh-t disturbing brett engaged in

$214.00 a week!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!?! what a friend'n rip-off! socialist economics

 

[Ironshot]

Why do you bother getting up everyday? Van and Danny had had enough and started doing something about it.
I have way better benefits here, a fully funded pension and I am happy with it. I will gladly sign a card for the APWA once UPSers kick the IBT out.
The IBT is a "Business" that lives on you! Ask yourself, do you have much control over anything OF importance? Go compare business models of the IBT and the APWA and give it some thought! Right now you sound like you aren't think much at all.

 

[Bill]

The APWA is offering alot on speculation. Who's to say that they run out the Teamsters and claim to be the workers new bargaining unit and the company does'nt recognize them as such. WE'RE SCREWED!!! Alot of drivers that are covered under Central States Pension plan are not aware that the Pension benefits were just increased. Look in Teamwork magazine "Summer 2006", page 12. Having an all UPS Union sounds great but we would also be a single employer pension fund and if UPS ever went belly up we'd end up with little. Oh, you say that could never happen. That's what my father thought when he worked for Brannif Airlines and now he draws 20 cents on the dollar for his retirement. What we have now might not be the best but considering the alternative I think I'll stay Teamster.

maroon, if you read the fine print, you "only" have to work another 35 years to receive the full benefits of the pension plan. I think I'll take my chances on the APWA where all the money goes to UPS people and not into the corrupt Teamster leaders pockets who, by the way, are receiving million dollar pensions, while your pension is being cut.

 

[Ironshot]

you all need to do more back ground check of the apwa. i was at the hrs. meeting and i found it to be a joke. be real folks these guys cant produce what the are feeding us. state and fed employees dont get this in retirement and benifits. if dog rabbit thats the way it goes. THE APWA DONT HAVE THE MONEY TO SUPPORT THIS UNION. SO WHOS MONEY ARE THEY GOING TO USE..YOURS. THEY ARE LISTED AS A NON PROFIT IN THE STATE OF DEL. I WILL ASK HOW THEY WILL COVER CATASTROPHIC ILLNESS.

Local;
As if your imput is trust worthy? Please! One just has to go thru the postings to see that individuals who realize the scum the IBT leadership is
isn't worth their dues..Not to mention the detail after detail of APWA materials. Ya, local maybe on the other hand you are right.. Like your spokesbabe said; The IBT isn't worried about the APWA at all. Listen to the home office and go back to bed. We will never amount to anything after all. LOL

 

[Ironshot]

Wdworker,
Damn, do you worry about everything as you seem to worry on whether or not the APWA could successfully rep for you and all of us on the frieght side?
If you truly worry to such a degree, we would love to hear your concerns regarding the IBT that doesn't deserve your dues now. Starting this Jan. 2007 the new pension funding clock is ticking for the unfunded pension funds.
These funds have seven years to come up to 90 %. And membership continues to decline. Even UPSF employees aren't but a drop in the bucket.
We have no reason to jump off into the financial abyss. Just people like Local whom states "I Vote Teamster"! Like I said; "Stupid is as Stupid Does"
APWA, when it takes control, will be responsible for your pension check. Where does that money come from? It would come from the Pension plan that your employers pays into right now. West, Central, East etc. That's the reality the Teamsters and agents don't like. The courts and then the Feds will mandate the funds be transferred to the APWA pension Accounts. As I see it you just may get all the money sent in your name not just 60% of it as it seems to be the norm. Or Less if the Pension plan can't get funded in 7 yrs. Stop thinking the IBT is or wanting to help you, like hoofa said the other day "friend... you all"! He'd sell you and anyone else for his benefit. Do some research on your own. You get friend...ed by UPS without
representation, and you choose to stay with a organization that friend...s you
regularily? Question is could the APWA be any worse? Since the founders
Van and Danny are your own I'd say they too are tired of taking it twice. Just a guess? Hence the APWA was created. Work smart not hard.

 

[JonFrum]

. . . The courts and then the Feds will mandate the funds be transferred to the APWA pension Accounts. As I see it you just may get all the money sent in your name not just 60% . . .

You need to read this Federal Court of Appeals decision . . .
USCA1 Opinion 91-1542
You will see that the courts are not on your side and there are major hurdles that you must overcome in order to transfer UPS-contributed money out of a Teamsters pension plan.
The above link is to the Appeal of the original case, which the rank and file UPS reformers also lost. I have a copy of the original decision dated 4-19-1991 Civil Action No. 86-3690-H by Judge Harrington, but it's not available easily on line. I attended the original case in person. It was a real eyeopener.

Exerpt from the above link . . .
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FIRST CIRCUIT No. 91-1542
RONALD W. CATERINO, ET AL., Plaintiffs, Appellants,
v.
J. LEO BARRY, ET AL., Defendants, Appellees.

APPEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS
[Hon. Edward friend. Harrington, U.S. District Judge]
Before Breyer, Chief Judge, Cyr and Stahl, Circuit Judges.
November 12, 1993

"The Teamsters Pension Fund, being a multi-employer fund, spreads the benefits of such excess contributions among all participants in the Fund. In a single-employer plan, the UPS employees realized, they would not have to share their "excess" with others. And unshared, UPS' $1.66 per hour contribution, as of 1986, could buy pensions of $2600 per month (instead of $900 per month) for UPS employees who retired from UPS service after twenty-five years. Alternatively, UPS, in a single-employer plan, could fund the $900 per month pension for employees retiring after 25 years with a contribution of less than 70 cents (rather than $1.66) for every employee hour worked."

 

[nospinzone]

APWA legal claim to IBT pension money

You need to read this Federal Court of Appeals decision . . .
USCA1 Opinion 91-1542
You will see that the courts are not on your side and there are major hurdles that you must overcome in order to transfer UPS-contributed money out of a Teamsters pension plan.
The above link is to the Appeal of the original case, which the rank and file UPS reformers also lost. I have a copy of the original decision dated 4-19-1991 Civil Action No. 86-3690-H by Judge Harrington, but it's not available easily on line. I attended the original case in person. It was a real eyeopener.

Exerpt from the above link . . .
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR THE FIRST CIRCUIT No. 91-1542
RONALD W. CATERINO, ET AL., Plaintiffs, Appellants,
v.
J. LEO BARRY, ET AL., Defendants, Appellees.

APPEAL FROM THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS
[Hon. Edward friend. Harrington, U.S. District Judge]
Before Breyer, Chief Judge, Cyr and Stahl, Circuit Judges.
November 12, 1993

"The Teamsters Pension Fund, being a multi-employer fund, spreads the benefits of such excess contributions among all participants in the Fund. In a single-employer plan, the UPS employees realized, they would not have to share their "excess" with others. And unshared, UPS' $1.66 per hour contribution, as of 1986, could buy pensions of $2600 per month (instead of $900 per month) for UPS employees who retired from UPS service after twenty-five years. Alternatively, UPS, in a single-employer plan, could fund the $900 per month pension for employees retiring after 25 years with a contribution of less than 70 cents (rather than $1.66) for every employee hour worked."

This is an excellent post and excellent find. What was your history and participation with this case? Thankyou for sharing this with us.

I strongly reccommend that everyone read this case. The numbers are smaller and its from the 80's but it is an excellent summary on the principles of how the Teamster pension funds work, how much we are sacrificing, and what we are getting for the cut in our what our pensions should truly be worth (ie....portability and the security of a "decent" pension).

One note on your opinion put forward by this statement: You will see that the courts are not on your side and there are major hurdles that you must overcome in order to transfer UPS-contributed money out of a Teamsters pension plan. . I disagree based on text found within this legal decision. Unless I'm reading this wrong, this strongly supports APWA's claim to transfer monies from the IBT funds which were contributed on behalf of UPS employees.

Finally, if the "no asset transfer" rule costs the new fund too much, there is a safety valve. The employees can automatically entitle themselves to a share of fund assets should the matter become so critically important to them that they take the drastic step of changing collective bargaining representatives (i.e., of leaving the Teamsters). See ERISA, 29 U.S.C 1415(a).

Unless there is a case since this decision which would alter this position, this clearly sets precedent in favor of APWA staking claim to funds on behalf of its members in the case of a successful decertification.

Regardless, thanks for the post. I enjoyed reading the case.
Nospin

 

[Ironshot]

Re:IBT Pension Funds Transfer?

First, excellent on bringing the USCA1 Opinion 91-1542 to the disussion.
As I read this Opinion it would 1). Seem as if the window is open to
the successful transfer of funds from the IBT Pensions to the APWA Pension.
2). I would be very curious to know more about the 3rd circuit as to it's ruling history, members of the court, liberal or conservative? While none of these are a accurate predictor of any future rulings, it does give one an idea as to the success ability of one's case. After all there would be a better venue in the midwest. Shopping for a favorable legal venue isn't new. What was the plantifs legal team like? Novice, Some Experience or experts in this area? We all know a favorable ruling in your case boils down to the "money" one can put into the legal team.
3). As to the possibility of not getting all the funds in UPS's name transferred to the APWA? I again would suggest we could get a sizeable amount to cover employee's nearing retirement at this current time; while still collecting the "Gravy" funds put into the new APWA pension on behalf of the PTers. Just how many Part time employees are there at UPS anyway? Anyone? This is probably why the IBT does not give them much attention. Could it be the IBT wants more part time employees? Or just doesn't push the full time issue for this very reason? Could this be why it is very difficult for part timers to get into full time jobs?
The APWA has improvements for the Part timer issue. Just ask them!
Anyway... It is excellent to see the thoughts and ideas flow!

 

[local776]

Worker,,,
You're misleading everyone on that "increase". Here's a quote from the Leedham debate where Leedham called yall out on it.

They're not being straight with Teamster members. In fact, this just came out from Teamworks. It's a newsletter from Central States, and in it it indicates participantswith national contracts receive a 43 percent combined increase, but in the small print, it tells you that you have to work another 30 years from today. So if you make it to 2036, you might see an increased benefit

And he's correct. Look at that table and at the bottom is a some small print saying amounts based on contribution years earned after 2006.... So if you can work another 30 years, then you might get to enjoy those benefit increases. How big of a supply of BenGay do you have?

The only division here would be the one where IBT's cash flow gets divided in half after they lose their largest member whose back they have been riding the past 15years. And you attack market speculation as "assuming" as if its some risky, wild new idea. IBT 'assumes' that the market will perform well when they invest our money. The rest of the free world 'assumes' that the market will perform well when they invest their money. So how is this such a risky endeavor if THE REST OF THE FREE ENTERPRISE WORLD is doing it? And from the benefits we're getting now, any change would be an improvement. And the medical benefits aren't assumptions. These are actual bids that have been placed by insurance companies who are courting the APWA. You think the Van and Danny pulled these insurance claims out of their ass? After evaluating the benefit proposals of several insurance companies, the best offer was accepted and was posted on the website. Not much assumption there. And if healthcare cost do skyrocket, these increases would be felt by IBT also, so increased cost of healthcare would not be a problem isolated to APWA members. Pie in the sky representation? Currently the Teamster BA have to provide services for 1.4 million people. APWA BA would have to provide services to approximately 250,000 UPS employees.

Which business agent is going to have more time to spend at my hub or barn? The IBT business agent who has to take care of 5 times the number of members at multiple workcites or the APWA business agent who has fewer members located at one employer? Think about that....
Nospin

ahhhh what a wicked wed SURPRISE SURPRISE Your not going to have a buisness agent, a local or anything. Your going to have what that they are calling a POD for each terminal, let us know about the members from UPSF or dont they count. OHHHHH i guess that is a good way to SAVE MONEY.

 

[local776]

All you have to do is pick up the phone and call van or danny they will answer all of your questions.the numbers are on the web site Parcelworkers - A NEW LOOK!* WHAT MAKES THIS UNION LOOK DIFFERENT''*. Don't be afraid they won't turn you into the IBT.Or attend a meeting they will tell you where the next meeting is going to be held.Then call the IBT and ask how the contract talks are going let me know what answer you get.

dog gone...... a taemster meeting for UPSF will be this;
Sunday NOV 12 2006
Time-2:00
HolidayInn( Wandas) in Mechanicsburg Pa
Open to everyone
You all are welcomed they wont have a guard their to throw you out like the APWA does.Ask tough questions.

 

[local776]

Local;
As if your imput is trust worthy? Please! One just has to go thru the postings to see that individuals who realize the scum the IBT leadership is
isn't worth their dues..Not to mention the detail after detail of APWA materials. Ya, local maybe on the other hand you are right.. Like your spokesbabe said; The IBT isn't worried about the APWA at all. Listen to the home office and go back to bed. We will never amount to anything after all. LOL

Wasnt you made a offer to have the APWA do a open face with Teamsters. No response ummmmmmmmmmm. I didnt think so. Alot of hot air. If the APWA is all you say they are then they wouldnt mind. Forgive me they have no real agents. Since you sound close to Dan and Van im sure you could get that answer. Im only a driver nothing more nothing less, Im not a Teamster trying to cut the throat of my fellow brother and sisters. WAKE UP AMERICA the grass is not always greener on the other side.

 

[30andout]

dog gone...... a taemster meeting for UPSF will be this;
Sunday NOV 12 2006
Time-2:00
HolidayInn( Wandas) in Mechanicsburg Pa
Open to everyone
You all are welcomed they wont have a guard their to throw you out like the APWA does.Ask tough questions.

The last time I asked a tough question at a IBT meeting I was told "thats just the way it is".