Black Lives Matter? Statistics Show That They Do.....

[refineryworker05]

Is redlining a problem in any of these neighborhoods?

https://www.theroot.com/living-it-up-10-affluent-black-neighborhoods-1790868480

Smh, I don’t get thevquestion as it relates to my posts. There are exactly cases right now of banks being charged with discrimination in housing. It is still occurring today.

Either one wants to know or one doesn’t want to know about this topic but the actual data the actual lawsuits the actual studies about wide spread discrimination in housing, in employment, the criminal justice system exist

 

[refineryworker05]

It was offered as an example that mortgage companies have no problem lending to blacks, even offering larger loans (to blacks) at risk of default. The lack of lending in red lined zones was not based on race, it was based on economic risk. I'm sure auto insurance rates were higher in red lined areas than they would have been in a bordering zip code. Economic risk drew the boundaries for these areas, not skin color. It is very hard for a person that only sees race or color to understand these concepts however.

This thing is just not true. Again, the fha created the modern housing market. Most Americans didn’t own their own homes.

The fha’s plan was to create home owners. It did this by guaranteeing 30 year mortgages, with low down payments, and low interest rates. The fha said it wanted to create racially homogenous neighborhoods the fha then created color coded maps with certain areas in red which were drawn on racial lines and told banks if you give mortgages in the areas marked red we will not gaurantee those mortgages. These actions by the fha directly made homeownership far less black Americans, it created segregated neighborhoods because the stated goal of the fha was to create racially homogenous neighborhoods so letting black Americans in would have resulted in your neighborhood getting redlined, and it allowed white Americans to build wealth will denying it to black Americans. This was official government policy.

It is what the 1968 housing bill was about.

This is not opinion. This is actual American history.

 

[Sportello]

Did anyone read the conclusion of the paper?

Perhaps the only case where there may be economically unjustified restrictions in mortgage loan
supply is the case of racial redlining. This stems from the unfounded assumption that integrated and
minority neighborhoods involve relatively greater risks. Therefore, to ensure equal housing opportunity,
more vigorous enforcement of current anti discrimination laws and a review of underwriting
procedures which, in effect, may be discriminatory is desirable.

 

[refineryworker05]

In your view apparently banks should just give loans to whoever wants one without any consideration to that person's ability to repay the loan. It's that view that was pushed on banks by Frank and Dodd and was a major catalyst for the real estate market collapsing in 2008. But it's racism you cry, as always. No, it's sound business to not throw money away. As I said it may well have happened at one time but you seem to be implying it's still a systemic problem. No, if a person has the ability to pay and good credit that person gets a loan, no matter his race by law. If he doesn't he has legal remedies and banks don't want to throw money away on legal fees either.

I am detailing how official government policy by the fha helped to create residential racial segregation, prevented black Americans from homeownership and allowed white Americans to build wealth by denying it to black Americans.

Again, there is still wide spread discrimination in housing right. The cases exist. The studies exist all one has to do is read.

The above post has no relation to any point I made in my post I mean no relation at all.

 

[floridays]

That's a cop-out.

You offered one piece of data that analyzed the situation decades after the fact; like I said, it basically confirmed the self-fulfilling effects of racial-redlining and addressed nothing of the initial animus. Your research paper doesn't negate any of my propositions.

Guy, it's up to you to come to a wholistic understanding of the situation we're discussing.

Like so many other things, it's really, really complicated, and there's no easy answer, but several things stand out that I would assume we could all agree on.

Your 'easy' answer that redlining has nothing to do with race is laughable, absurd, and frankly a little offensive.

I'm out.

Nice exit.
If a person is racist or an institution (if it's possible) is, human nature would indicate the optimum position would be to hold the target of the alleged racism in an inferior position. In other words a slave, all be it to a mortgage.
In investment, the only color that matters is green. Following your line of thinking, a racist lender or institution of lending withheld selling mortgages simply based on an applicants skin color, forgoing their reason for existing, which is the pursuit of the color green. Laughable, risk is the primary concern in lending, not skin color.

 

[floridays]

Smh, I don’t get thevquestion as it relates to my posts. There are exactly cases right now of banks being charged with discrimination in housing. It is still occurring today.

Either one wants to know or one doesn’t want to know about this topic but the actual data the actual lawsuits the actual studies about wide spread discrimination in housing, in employment, the criminal justice system exist

And the lawsuits exist on the basis of law that was based on race and the other protected classes, not on sound lending practices. A parallel would be the last housing crash, all caused by federal anti-discrimination laws, and lenders trying to work within the framework that was dictated to them to sell mortgages.

 

[refineryworker05]

And the lawsuits exist on the basis of law that was based on race and the other protected classes, not on sound lending practices. A parallel would be the last housing crash, all caused by federal anti-discrimination laws, and lenders trying to work within the framework that was dictated to them to sell mortgages.

Again, what does the above post have to do with my post that it was responding to?

It’s like these posters are not responding to what I have actually posted. Carry on

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Did anyone read the conclusion of the paper?

Perhaps the only case where there may be economically unjustified restrictions in mortgage loan
supply is the case of racial redlining. This stems from the unfounded assumption that integrated and
minority neighborhoods involve relatively greater risks. Therefore, to ensure equal housing opportunity,
more vigorous enforcement of current anti discrimination laws and a review of underwriting
procedures which, in effect, may be discriminatory is desirable.

I believe discrimination existed but the law over corrected.
Hopefully better data and algorithms exist today.

 

[vantexan]

I am detailing how official government policy by the fha helped to create residential racial segregation, prevented black Americans from homeownership and allowed white Americans to build wealth by denying it to black Americans.

Again, there is still wide spread discrimination in housing right. The cases exist. The studies exist all one has to do is read.

The above post has no relation to any point I made in my post I mean no relation at all.

The FHA was created in 1934. America was already segregated. It maybe maintained the status quo, it didn't create segregation. Prove that a Black family with good income and credit can't buy into a overwhelmingly White neighborhood. Happens all the time.

 

[floridays]

I believe discrimination existed but the law over corrected.
Hopefully better data and algorithms exist today.

I know you are in Georgia now, not sure if you are of the 1950's and 60's south, but if you were we both know discrimination absolutely did exist.

I have a hard time believing it was based solely on race but stand to be corrected. I've looked at both arguments and find it hard to believe that a mortgage company would vote against their interest to make money. The wrinkle to me does come with the FHA, a government program that backed these loans, absolving the mortgage company of some liability. I am now changing my mind and agreeing with those who have argued with me. I do think, through government dictate, in prescribing the rules for underwriting and securing these loans was responsible for the redlining. My question turns to,
Who controlled the government and promoted this discrimination?

@Sportello @BrownArmy @vantexan @refineryworker05

 

[floridays]

Mr. Jingles, Be aware of rat traps.

 

[vantexan]

I know you are in Georgia now, not sure if you are of the 1950's and 60's south, but if you were we both know discrimination absolutely did exist.

I have a hard time believing it was based solely on race but stand to be corrected. I've looked at both arguments and find it hard to believe that a mortgage company would vote against their interest to make money. The wrinkle to me does come with the FHA, a government program that backed these loans, absolving the mortgage company of some liability. I am now changing my mind and agreeing with those who have argued with me. I do think, through government dictate, in prescribing the rules for underwriting and securing these loans was responsible for the redlining. My question turns to,
Who controlled the government and promoted this discrimination?

@Sportello @BrownArmy @vantexan @refineryworker05

The Dems controlled Congress for a 40 year stretch.

 

[floridays]

The Dems controlled Congress for a 40 year stretch.

You're educated, please sit in the back row and be quiet, I @vantexan 'd you to observe and note my stipulation and affirmation of the facts they presented.

 

[refineryworker05]

The FHA was created in 1934. America was already segregated. It maybe maintained the status quo, it didn't create segregation. Prove that a Black family with good income and credit can't buy into a overwhelmingly White neighborhood. Happens all the time.

Post WWII, there was a housing building boom in America that really saw the creation of suburban neighborhoods all over America.

The south which is where most black Americans lived when the fha was created isn't really residentially segregated(there is difference between segregated water fountains and stores and segregated neighborhoods) because there were so many black Americans living in the south.

So with fha as a policy requiring racially homogenous neighborhoods, it prevented black Americans from moving into those newly built suburbs all across America and thus the fha helped to create more residential segregation.

Again, I don't know why you refuse to read anything about housing discrimination that occurs today. Again, the cases exist.

Here is a hint a black families in many of the nation's largest cities with a household income of $100,000 live in the equivalent neighborhoods as a white family that earns less than $25,000 a year.

You really should actually read about this topic.

 

[floridays]

Post WWII, there was a housing building boom in America that really saw the creation of suburban neighborhoods all over America.

The south which is where most black Americans lived when the fha was created isn't really residentially segregated(there is difference between segregated water fountains and stores and segregated neighborhoods) because there were so many black Americans living in the south.

So with fha as a policy requiring racially homogenous neighborhoods, it prevented black Americans from moving into those newly built suburbs all across America and thus the fha helped to create more residential segregation.

Again, I don't know why you refuse to read anything about housing discrimination that occurs today. Again, the cases exist.

Here is a hint a black families in many of the nation's largest cities with a household income of $100,000 live in the equivalent neighborhoods as a white family that earns less than $25,000 a year.

You really should actually read about this topic.

I relented and agreed, I actually looked at both sides of the equation, I stipulate everything your side is correct. The question that presents itself is

Who passed the measures that allowed these practices, and have they promoted or passed any legislation since to rectify.

Get busy.

 

[vantexan]

Post WWII, there was a housing building boom in America that really saw the creation of suburban neighborhoods all over America.

The south which is where most black Americans lived when the fha was created isn't really residentially segregated(there is difference between segregated water fountains and stores and segregated neighborhoods) because there were so many black Americans living in the south.

So with fha as a policy requiring racially homogenous neighborhoods, it prevented black Americans from moving into those newly built suburbs all across America and thus the fha helped to create more residential segregation.

Again, I don't know why you refuse to read anything about housing discrimination that occurs today. Again, the cases exist.

Here is a hint a black families in many of the nation's largest cities with a household income of $100,000 live in the equivalent neighborhoods as a white family that earns less than $25,000 a year.

You really should actually read about this topic.

Did I understand you correctly that when the FHA was created the South wasn't really segregated, just water fountains and such were separated?

 

[floridays]

Did I understand you correctly that when the FHA was created the South wasn't really segregated, just water fountains and such were separated?

You may be correct on your understanding, but it seems the fish are schooling in another area at present, and are seemingly not available for comment.

 

[refineryworker05]

I relented and agreed, I actually looked at both sides of the equation, I stipulate everything your side is correct. The question that presents itself is

Who passed the measures that allowed these practices, and have they promoted or passed any legislation since to rectify.

Get busy.

What sides, I'm posting about American history in relation to racial discrimination.

African enslavement and dehumanization and lack of citizenship was written in our constitution. The document that governs our rights. So American law made these practices legal and American legislatures with the approval of American citizens passed these measures.

Essentially black Americans rectified some it and are still trying to rectify all of it with large amounts of resistance from most of America.

 

[refineryworker05]

Did I understand you correctly that when the FHA was created the South wasn't really segregated, just water fountains and such were separated?

Yes, when the FHA passed the south was not as segregated. Again, there were a lot of black people in the south, in many areas on the south the black residents out numbered the white residents, that's one reason why the south passed Jim Crow laws because it was the why to maintain social control and deny black citizens rights because black and white southerners lived in close proximity to one another.

What the fha did was again spread segregation to the whole nation because there was a building boom to which built up suburbs all around the nation and because the goal of the fha was racially homogenous neighborhoods, that directly led to the creation of a lot more residential segregation.

 

[vantexan]

Yes, when the FHA passed the south was not as segregated. Again, there were a lot of black people in the south, in many areas on the south the black residents out numbered the white residents, that's one reason why the south passed Jim Crow laws because it was the why to maintain social control and deny black citizens rights because black and white southerners lived in close proximity to one another.

What the fha did was again spread segregation to the whole nation because there was a building boom to which built up suburbs all around the nation and because the goal of the fha was racially homogenous neighborhoods, that directly led to the creation of a lot more residential segregation.

OK, prove that. The South was highly segregated and only in a few places did Blacks outnumber Whites. Never heard of the KKK?