Build a mosque...

[wkmac]

Next door should be a butcher shop that specializes in pork and have an open barbeque with pork ribs

My guess is the other 2 million NY residents who are linked to the Abrahamic traditions would equally object and in louder voices just by sheer number.

Funny how so few people seem to understand that at the heart of the great problem facing the world are 2 people that both came together out of the same bucket. A bucket man-made by imagination not only in their own so-called histories but even the creation of the sky gods they worship. Those of us outside this bucket would be greater served if we jettisoned them and the god(s) they created. As long as we inject ourselves in the name of resource control for the benefit of currency monopoly, our debt and enslavement will only increase, these people will never find peace and our posterity (and theirs too) will spill blood and die for the benefit of an elite few.

 

[trickpony1]

I am appalled that so many of my friends are against the mosque near Ground Zero. We should allow it in order to promote tolerance.

I also propose that two gay nightclubs be opened next door to the mosque to promote tolerance in the mosque. We could call them "The Turban Cowboy" and "You Mecca Me Hot".
Next door should be a butcher shop that specializes in pork and have an open barbeque with pork ribs and across the street a very daring lingerie store called "Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret.". And next door in flashing lights open an Adult Toy Shop. I think for the purpose of tolerance we should build accordingly around the Mosque.

Exactly!

 

[UPS Lifer]

Because in protecting one person's toes, they step on hundreds of other's toes. You don't protect the rights of one and sacrifice all other's rights. The ACLU does this all the time and I personally don't care for them.

This is a beehive for the ubers. If they were right wing, Dies would be singing a different tune!

Have you noticed that the list of things that you do care for is far shorter than the list of things that you don't care for?

I apologize in advance for sticking my nose into this. I obviously missed the post(s) that caused this animosity between the two of you and I really don't want to stir up muddy waters. I enjoy reading both of your posts and it bothers me to see this constant friction. You guys need to work it out in a PM.

That's right !!! There are few gems in life. I eliminate the junk and savor the treasures.

Well said! Especially as we get older.... we don't have time or patience for all the BS! Every time I eliminate clutter or junk in my life my energy shifts to a very positive side, Feng-Shui seems to support this also. Just organizing the garage and getting rid of the junk makes me feel better and the getting rid of the emotional and intangible junk also helps.

AND when I actually sift through the junk I often times find treasures to savor.

 

[Babagounj]

(NY Post)- The leader of the Ground Zero mosque, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, yesterday said he’s a loyal American, and cited his voting record to prove it.
The only problem is that, according to Board of Elections records, Rauf hasn’t voted since 2001. In fact, New Jersey records show that he’s no longer registered in his home state, The Post has learned.
“I vote in elections, I pay taxes, I pledge allegiance to the flag, and I am a Giants fan — I am glad they won yesterday,” Rauf quipped during a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations yesterday.
But New Jersey records show that Rauf, once a registered Democrat, voted last in November, 2001

 

[diesel96]

This is a beehive for the ubers. If they were right wing, Dies would be singing a different tune!

[video=youtube;sMjhuP2YlzE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMjhuP2YlzE[/video]

Name that Tune......

 

[UPS Lifer]

Oh! come on Dies! You really think I would buy into a socialist's spin of his membership in the ACLU as a conservative organization. I appreciate the good laugh! Thank you! Of course if you are saying the the ACLU is to the right of Chomsky.... that might be true. Just like I have said that everything is to the right of you. I guess an uber-uber could see the ACLU as conservative ! LOL

Here is the second line from wikipedia about your socialist buddy Noam "Since the 1960s, he has become known more widely as a political dissident and an anarchist,[8] referring to himself as a libertarian socialist."

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out after reading all your political posts that if you support something it is uber left wing. So am I drawing a wrong conclusion here? You put up a you tube video of a self-confirmed libertarian socialist... I must assume like obama, you view America with socialist eyes?

Tell me I am not right and that you believe in Capitalism? ...this ought to be good!

 

[diesel96]

Oh! come on Dies! You really think I would buy into a socialist's spin of his membership in the ACLU as a conservative organization. I appreciate the good laugh! Thank you! Of course if you are saying the the ACLU is to the right of Chomsky.... that might be true. Just like I have said that everything is to the right of you. I guess an uber-uber could see the ACLU as conservative ! LOL

Here is the second line from wikipedia about your socialist buddy Noam "Since the 1960s, he has become known more widely as a political dissident and an anarchist,[8] referring to himself as a libertarian socialist."

It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out after reading all your political posts that if you support something it is uber left wing. So am I drawing a wrong conclusion here? You put up a you tube video of a self-confirmed libertarian socialist... I must assume like obama, you view America with socialist eyes?

Tell me I am not right and that you believe in Capitalism? ...this ought to be good!

It's such nonsense. Like the way many here including yourself sling "liberal" around like it's a bad word. Or the way the right has co-opted the term "family values." It's all just rhetoric, meant to divert people's attention away from issues.

Ethnic and political labels seem to stir some up more than others. In many comments I've heard and in columns I've read, Democrat seems to equate to lazy, liberal bleeding heart, welfare state, big government lover, and Socialist loser. Republican seems to mean greedy, corporate loving, narrow-minded, legislate my morality, everyone else is evil obstructionists. Even Independents are considered wishy-washy rather than open-minded.
In the real world, not all Democrats are created equal, nor are Republicans. The vast majority of both political parties are hard working, family loving, patriotic folk who basically want to be left alone to live their lives, raise their families and practice their faith. Neither wants government to interfere in their lives but they do have some basic philosophical differences in what should be the function of government. But surprise, surprise! There are Democrats who own guns and believe in the second amendment and there are Republicans who don't belong to the NRA who don't think the definition of marriage should be legislated. There are Democrats who don't believe in abortion or welfare and Republicans who do. And in case your living in the desert, FYI, America is full of both camps who own businesses that are the engine that runs our economy. So asking any American if they believe in Capitalism is really an assinine question. You should have phrased it how much should the Gov't let Capitalism run wild without consequences or how much should we put a choke collar on it.....

 

[UPS Lifer]

There you go Dies - I am very open to your formation of the question so "how much should the Gov't let Capitalism run wild without consequences or how much should we put a choke collar on it....." So please answer your own phrasing of the question.

We have found common ground. I don't like the labels either. Ultra (Uber) left and right wing philosophical differences are killing this country because it is all about who has the power and who can ram it down the other party's throat. We need to find common ground and create laws and regulations that protect the constitution, which in effect will protect America and our way of life. I have found that when people do things that are in their own interest and not in the interest of the common good everyone suffers. When they do it for the common good everyone benefits. The problem is that those in power can and do become corrupted by power and want more and more. One of the main reasons I support term limits.

If you take this back to the thread and find common ground... you will find we all believe in freedom of religion etc. So start there. I think that New Yorkers would have less of a problem if the Mosque leadership would outright denounce terrorism and Hamas and dedicate this "community center" in the name of all faiths. But they don't want to do that do they so the next question is why? They have their own interests at heart and their intentions are not aimed at the benefit or charity of New York, even the name "Cordoba House" indicates the in the face attitude.

 

[moreluck]

My Cordoba had Corinthian leather.

 

[UPS Lifer]

BTW Dies - I understand that the question you proposed is a loaded question. You front loaded it and rear loaded it! (See the highlight) So that tells me that you don't believe in Capitalism and what this country was founded on... I am not taking your question out of context but it certainly sounds like a socialist wrote the question.What say you?

"how much should the Gov't let Capitalism run wild without consequences how much should we put a choke collar on it...."

 

[wkmac]

BTW Dies - I understand that the question you proposed is a loaded question. You front loaded it and rear loaded it! (See the highlight) So that tells me that you don't believe in Capitalism and what this country was founded on... I am not taking your question out of context but it certainly sounds like a socialist wrote the question.What say you?

"how much should the Gov't let Capitalism run wild without consequences how much should we put a choke collar on it...."

TELL EM' LIFER!

If he'd only look at The American Conservative Magazine website for example but what can I say! I would never even dream he'd go to something like LewRockwell or Mises for pete's sake!

You'd think the Fox News website would straighten him out as authoritarian.......uh I mean authoritative on all things capitalistic that they are.



Stop laughing D and catch the ball!

Did anyone ever dare consider the question, Is Capitalism Something Good?

 

[diesel96]

BTW Dies - I understand that the question you proposed is a loaded question. You front loaded it and rear loaded it! (See the highlight) So that tells me that you don't believe in Capitalism and what this country was founded on... I am not taking your question out of context but it certainly sounds like a socialist wrote the question.What say you?

"how much should the Gov't let Capitalism run wild without consequences how much should we put a choke collar on it...."

Sorry Lifer, but let's correct your modern day connotations of capitalism, by preceding it with the word "Crony" ....And no, this is definetly not what this country was founded on....

 

[wkmac]

Sorry Lifer, but let's correct your modern day connotations of capitalism, by preceding it with the word "Crony" ....And no, this is definetly not what this country was founded on....

Crony is an excellent point!

 

[Jones]

Crony is an excellent point!

Yup, it goes well with "Banksters", for some reason it cracks me up every time someone uses that word.

 

[trplnkl]

Crony is an excellent point!

CRONY? I thought he misspelled CORNY....

 

[wkmac]

CRONY? I thought he misspelled CORNY....

I can actually bellieve that.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Sorry Lifer, but let's correct your modern day connotations of capitalism, by preceding it with the word "Crony" ....And no, this is definetly not what this country was founded on....

Cronyism can be used in a lot of different ways.

A few thoughts and a question.

What was our country founded on?
I am not a constitutional scholar but it seems to me that our Founders wanted to establish a constitution that would be able to stand the test of time. They wanted the peoples' freedoms to be protected and felt that government should have limited interference in their lives. Please reread my post that included Capitalism. I did not say that the country was founded on Capitalism. BUT what the country was founded on was the limited interference into our lives. At least that is what I believe our country was founded on. I just did not explain that portion and the two thoughts appear to be tied together. Capitalism evolved and grew in the 1800's from the fertile ground that our Constitution created.

Supply & Demand
My simple definition of Capitalism refers to the process of supply and demand. I feel our country is at it's economic best when people feel empowered to create a condition of "demands" based on providing a "need and a want" to drive the consumer to their product or service. When our government gets in the way of that process it stifles our empowerment.

Labor - Marxism - Keynesian Theory
I also tied your question to Socialism and it might be better reflected as Marxism especially basing the comment that was made about "crony". Simplistically, Marxists feel that labor is a commodity of Capitalism. This might explain the need to develop labor unions and why they lean to the left. The Keynesian theory (again very simply put) believes in infusion of capital into the economy to pull it out of a recession. However, when you spend what you don't have that is when the trouble begins.

Create Atmosphere of Understanding & Respect
Look - I worked at UPS for 36 years as a Teamster and in management. I was able to find my roots as I gained more wisdom. By that, I mean treat people like you would treat yourself not like a commodity. If you are understand both sides you can help to create an atmosphere of compromise. This ties back to the thread.

Economically or religiously speaking, extremism will get us in trouble. On one hand you have greed and the other hand you have intolerance.

Greed - Regulation - Empowerment
As a country we need to be protected from greed and the ills it creates but how much is too much? I say too much is when the country can not maintain the balance of regulation vs empowerment. This is a complex situation and one action affects another. When it tips in the favor of government, taxes and regulation the economic balance is choked off and a slow or non-existent recovery takes place.

Sorry for the long post.

What say you?

 

[wkmac]

More thoughts and ideas on "crony" or what others also correctly call State Capitalism.

 

[Babagounj]

(My Fox NY) –Rauf was ordered to pay $12,960 to city authorities who were fired up after having to front the ten days worth of pay earned by the officer keeping fire watch while the imam made repairs ranging from faulty fire alarms to moldy bathrooms and bedbugs.
Over 200 health and fire code violations were found in the building, and Rauf has until Oct. 9 to fix them. Union City is suing the religious leader for ignoring some 30 tenant complaints from 1996 to 2010.
Rauf’s lawyer said the complaints were all addressed in 2007 and that the suit is a political move in retaliation to his client’s hotly-contested plans to build a mosque in New York City’s financial district.
“There were no violations that were given notice until the problems with respect to the mosque in New York,” said lawyer Tomas Espinoza.

Rauf and his wife skipped a hearing about the tenants complaints last Wednesday, but did not give a reason for their absence.
At the time, Espinoza cited a lot of stress on his client, who he called a man of peace.
Judge Thomas Olivieri was unamused both by Rauf’s failure to show up and Espinoza’s lack of documented proof to back up his assertion that the problems had been addressed.

​

 

[moreluck]

Joy Behar & Whoopie walk off because they have no facts.....they are idiots (and Whoopie looks like she's dressed for Siberia )


Subject: the view 2 minutes

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-to-walk-off-at-the-view/?partner=rss&emc=rss