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wkmac
Guest
I thought Sherman and Grant destroyed the South so Dannyboy which are you, Sherman or Grant?
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wkmac
Guest
Hey Tie, enjoy this OT goat trail my friend because before we know it the contract will come around and all threads will either be how the union is destroying UPS or How management is Darth Vader incarnate!
Ironically from what I'm hearing from many bottomline supervisors and managers a number of them would agree with the Darth Vader thoughts too.
Ironically from what I'm hearing from many bottomline supervisors and managers a number of them would agree with the Darth Vader thoughts too.
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wkmac
Guest
http://www.free-market.net/resources/lit/democracy-vs-freedom.html
Since Bush is according to the many statements I've heard trying to advance the cause of democracy around the world I thought this op-ed piece was interesting and threw out some food for thought.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard1.html
Interesting thoughts on the Whiskey rebellion of the 1790's. Interesting how the big distillers (Big Business) would use the method of taxation to harm it's smaller distilling competitors (Small Business) in order to achieve market advantage. Think about that next time when you think gov't is really there to protect the little guy.
Since Bush is according to the many statements I've heard trying to advance the cause of democracy around the world I thought this op-ed piece was interesting and threw out some food for thought.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard1.html
Interesting thoughts on the Whiskey rebellion of the 1790's. Interesting how the big distillers (Big Business) would use the method of taxation to harm it's smaller distilling competitors (Small Business) in order to achieve market advantage. Think about that next time when you think gov't is really there to protect the little guy.
T
tieguy
Guest
interesting points wk. The thing is while all these educated opinionates espouse all of these terriffic theories on the rise and fall of rome as we know it, life goes on for me. I go to work, sometimes more than I really want to, I sleep, sometimes less than I really want to. I buy groceries , hardware items. Piddle around the house. Go on vacation. Recreate etc.
Despite all these great conspiracy theories my life basically continues down whatever routine path I have selected for myself.I find it interesting to read all these "sky is falling" pieces but meanwhile the sky in my part of world reigns rain and sunshine unchanged.
Despite all these great conspiracy theories my life basically continues down whatever routine path I have selected for myself.I find it interesting to read all these "sky is falling" pieces but meanwhile the sky in my part of world reigns rain and sunshine unchanged.
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wkmac
Guest
tie,
I'm the same way as you. I've got plans for next year's vacation, we're even planning a very large vacation in a couple of years as I plan to take about 4 weeks vacation, rent a motorhome and go see America with my kids. Had a meeting the other week with an investment specialist to map out some investment moves as I turn 49' next month and I moving towards a retirement way of thinking. My daughters are musicians and we went this pass weekend to look at home studio gear as they are writting and starting to record their own music.
The point is I do believe we all should focus and plan on the positive in our lives but I also think is important to give thought as all aspects of life, even the stuff that is uncomfortable and not really all that fun or pleasant. Freedom and Individual liberty are gifts we got only by the grace of God that allowed our births in this country. America by no stretch is perfect at all because it is made up by a race of being that by nature are not perfect. We can do some marvelous and wonderous things but we are also capable of unspeakable evils too just as an other human being in any other country is capable of.
Many of the founding fathers spoke of the great gift of freedom we have but also the need to be eternally vigilant in order to protect it. You mentioned Rome and must like America Rome, Greece, Assryia, Babylon, Egypt, and Sumeria, the great empires of mankind, all started off in various forms as great achievements for mankind and in many respects for their day provided a wonderful lifestyle for the citizens who made up their ruling class of peoples. However, they all in time fell as the people became less vigilant and became absorbed in their own vices.
As I read about the great empires history sez outter forces overthrew them which is true but they really fell from within, weakened by the fact that their war machine over time had enslaved numerous peoples but those numbers built up over time and the cultural pressures, their form of diversity, began to erode the very thing that made them great in the first place. As the culture fragmented and divided, the people lost all purchase and vigilence and finally like mighty Rome a ban of Germanic tribesmen were able to finally overthrow what was left.
We are in the state of societal divisions and to the various peoples coming here our histories are unimportant because they see us as not granting them importance. IMO, until the core peoples that make up the bloodstock of America, and the bloodstock is across many peoples, began to ignore Washington and once again focus on family and local community then the weakness will continue and like Rome so to will America fall by the wayside.
Tie, you may continue to live with rose colored glasses on at all times as at this time you can do that here but at some point looking at the past,understanding it and asking what if is necessary in order to go forward. JMHO.
BTW: We all wear rose colored glasses at some point and it's human nature to want to wear them all the time.
I'm the same way as you. I've got plans for next year's vacation, we're even planning a very large vacation in a couple of years as I plan to take about 4 weeks vacation, rent a motorhome and go see America with my kids. Had a meeting the other week with an investment specialist to map out some investment moves as I turn 49' next month and I moving towards a retirement way of thinking. My daughters are musicians and we went this pass weekend to look at home studio gear as they are writting and starting to record their own music.
The point is I do believe we all should focus and plan on the positive in our lives but I also think is important to give thought as all aspects of life, even the stuff that is uncomfortable and not really all that fun or pleasant. Freedom and Individual liberty are gifts we got only by the grace of God that allowed our births in this country. America by no stretch is perfect at all because it is made up by a race of being that by nature are not perfect. We can do some marvelous and wonderous things but we are also capable of unspeakable evils too just as an other human being in any other country is capable of.
Many of the founding fathers spoke of the great gift of freedom we have but also the need to be eternally vigilant in order to protect it. You mentioned Rome and must like America Rome, Greece, Assryia, Babylon, Egypt, and Sumeria, the great empires of mankind, all started off in various forms as great achievements for mankind and in many respects for their day provided a wonderful lifestyle for the citizens who made up their ruling class of peoples. However, they all in time fell as the people became less vigilant and became absorbed in their own vices.
As I read about the great empires history sez outter forces overthrew them which is true but they really fell from within, weakened by the fact that their war machine over time had enslaved numerous peoples but those numbers built up over time and the cultural pressures, their form of diversity, began to erode the very thing that made them great in the first place. As the culture fragmented and divided, the people lost all purchase and vigilence and finally like mighty Rome a ban of Germanic tribesmen were able to finally overthrow what was left.
We are in the state of societal divisions and to the various peoples coming here our histories are unimportant because they see us as not granting them importance. IMO, until the core peoples that make up the bloodstock of America, and the bloodstock is across many peoples, began to ignore Washington and once again focus on family and local community then the weakness will continue and like Rome so to will America fall by the wayside.
Tie, you may continue to live with rose colored glasses on at all times as at this time you can do that here but at some point looking at the past,understanding it and asking what if is necessary in order to go forward. JMHO.
BTW: We all wear rose colored glasses at some point and it's human nature to want to wear them all the time.
T
tieguy
Guest
Agreed. We should be vigilant. Frankie Roosevelts attempt to change the supreme court and perhaps control the three powers of our government the best example I can think of in this century. Even then I can't honestly say whether that was his true intent.
Otherwise we elect people that are actually stupid enough to run for public office. This stupidity assures us that this individual will have defects. The defects allow us some interesting conversations over a few beers or on a message board.But in the end I do believe our system works. I do believe that our systems checks and balances allow us the flexibility to reign someone or this country in when it swings too far in the wrong direction.
Otherwise we elect people that are actually stupid enough to run for public office. This stupidity assures us that this individual will have defects. The defects allow us some interesting conversations over a few beers or on a message board.But in the end I do believe our system works. I do believe that our systems checks and balances allow us the flexibility to reign someone or this country in when it swings too far in the wrong direction.
T
tieguy
Guest
"BTW: We all wear rose colored glasses at some point and it's human nature to want to wear them all the time."
Perhaps a point I feel compelled to discuss seperately. I don't know if rose colored glasses does me justice in this case. I am hopelessly optimistic about human race as a rule. I believe in the overall good of mankind. I recognize there will be people that disappoint this philosophy. I got into managment because I actually like people. I like the interaction. I get a charge from people. I love to be the guy that someone comes to for help. I feed off the people that come out of their way to perk me up when I am down from the pressures of the job. I would probably be very content spending a small portion of my time when i retire in a mall or public area watching people. While this does not give me a degree in the psychology of mankind it does give me a sense that most people want and need the same things. I believe 99 percent of the drivers I deal with daily want to do a good job and believe they do. Their definition may well be different than mine but they do believe they are doing a good job. I often get upset with people here and at work who shortchange the accoutability process by blaming the company a faceless entity for things they don't like. The company is comprised of individuals hopefully working together to achieve a common goal. Some do a better job than others. If I as a manager screw you over don't blame the company , blame me and hold me accountable. If you believe Eskew is screwing up the works and needs to be held accountable for his decisions then feel free to write him a letter and hold him accountable.
With that said the world is also comprised of individuals. There has to be a process of checks and balances. The free press I often criticize when I think its overzealous or biased is also a part of the process.
To summarize I believe in the overall good of mankind and feel we simply need the checks and balances in place to protect us against the few that would dissapoint. I find the debates and the points that you bring up very interesting. I think the points you and others make satisfies the vigilance reqirement you highlighted. As we view the occurances that take place in our country I don't see the evil plots. I see our failures as the result of failures of leadership.
Hurricane Katrina was a classic example. The conspiracy theorists blamed the mess on Bush appointing a crony to the fema job with no experience. Classic evil plot. In fact cronism allowed Brown the opportunity to be groomed for the fema job. Brown handled hundreds of natural disasters without his leadership being questioned but clearly was not up to this task. Couple that with a mayor and governor that were equally ineffective and you had a disaster on top of a disaster. There was no evil plot here to hatch. Individuals working hard but not up to the challenge of what they faced was the problem. Perhaps no one would have been up to the task of what these folks essentially faced first. The next leadership group that faces a similar scenario will learn from this one and do better. Human beings living, learning and dying. The hitlers are few and far between.
Thats one thing I think we do that when we debate politics and I am as guilty as the next person in doing this. We tend to look for evil motives in those political leaders we do not like. We analize actions and assign some evil motive as the cause. In the end I think most leaders including Kerry do the best they can based on their own particular background and belief system. The republic is safe and secure as long as you and I have the public means to debate todays events.
Perhaps a point I feel compelled to discuss seperately. I don't know if rose colored glasses does me justice in this case. I am hopelessly optimistic about human race as a rule. I believe in the overall good of mankind. I recognize there will be people that disappoint this philosophy. I got into managment because I actually like people. I like the interaction. I get a charge from people. I love to be the guy that someone comes to for help. I feed off the people that come out of their way to perk me up when I am down from the pressures of the job. I would probably be very content spending a small portion of my time when i retire in a mall or public area watching people. While this does not give me a degree in the psychology of mankind it does give me a sense that most people want and need the same things. I believe 99 percent of the drivers I deal with daily want to do a good job and believe they do. Their definition may well be different than mine but they do believe they are doing a good job. I often get upset with people here and at work who shortchange the accoutability process by blaming the company a faceless entity for things they don't like. The company is comprised of individuals hopefully working together to achieve a common goal. Some do a better job than others. If I as a manager screw you over don't blame the company , blame me and hold me accountable. If you believe Eskew is screwing up the works and needs to be held accountable for his decisions then feel free to write him a letter and hold him accountable.
With that said the world is also comprised of individuals. There has to be a process of checks and balances. The free press I often criticize when I think its overzealous or biased is also a part of the process.
To summarize I believe in the overall good of mankind and feel we simply need the checks and balances in place to protect us against the few that would dissapoint. I find the debates and the points that you bring up very interesting. I think the points you and others make satisfies the vigilance reqirement you highlighted. As we view the occurances that take place in our country I don't see the evil plots. I see our failures as the result of failures of leadership.
Hurricane Katrina was a classic example. The conspiracy theorists blamed the mess on Bush appointing a crony to the fema job with no experience. Classic evil plot. In fact cronism allowed Brown the opportunity to be groomed for the fema job. Brown handled hundreds of natural disasters without his leadership being questioned but clearly was not up to this task. Couple that with a mayor and governor that were equally ineffective and you had a disaster on top of a disaster. There was no evil plot here to hatch. Individuals working hard but not up to the challenge of what they faced was the problem. Perhaps no one would have been up to the task of what these folks essentially faced first. The next leadership group that faces a similar scenario will learn from this one and do better. Human beings living, learning and dying. The hitlers are few and far between.
Thats one thing I think we do that when we debate politics and I am as guilty as the next person in doing this. We tend to look for evil motives in those political leaders we do not like. We analize actions and assign some evil motive as the cause. In the end I think most leaders including Kerry do the best they can based on their own particular background and belief system. The republic is safe and secure as long as you and I have the public means to debate todays events.
O
ok2bclever
Guest
Dang! Bravo, here here! I agree with and laud everything said in this missive.
Ummm, whoever you are does tie know you are using his handle?
Five Stars regardless.
Ummm, whoever you are does tie know you are using his handle?
Five Stars regardless.
S
susiedriver
Guest
Sorry to get back on point here, but wouldn't the public have been better served by placing orders for Tamiflu before the supply ran out, instead of asking for martial law once the flu breaks out?
The Dutch have two and a half times the doses(5million) stockpiled as we do, for petes sake.
The Dutch have two and a half times the doses(5million) stockpiled as we do, for petes sake.
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toonertoo
Guest
I think it really is him, hes just having a reflective moment. 5 stars also.
O
over9five
Guest
....I don't tell a lot of people this, but I agree with him more often than not.
5 stars.
5 stars.
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toonertoo
Guest
I think I remember him best by this quote
"We have quickly become a society where the rights of a few dictate how the majority is allowed to act. "
And I agreed with that too.I think he got the most votes I have ever seen on here.
"We have quickly become a society where the rights of a few dictate how the majority is allowed to act. "
And I agreed with that too.I think he got the most votes I have ever seen on here.
D
dannyboy
Guest
"The Dutch have two and a half times the doses(5million) stockpiled as we do, for petes sake"
what, and make some evil drug company rich because they gave money to the RNC? Heaven forbid!
what, and make some evil drug company rich because they gave money to the RNC? Heaven forbid!
S
susiedriver
Guest
dBoy,
Maybe that's the reason! Hoffman-Roche didn't give enough to the RNC, less than $100,000. That would explain putting millions at risk.
Maybe that's the reason! Hoffman-Roche didn't give enough to the RNC, less than $100,000. That would explain putting millions at risk.
S
susiedriver
Guest
Newsweek article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9675585/site/newsweek/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9675585/site/newsweek/
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wkmac
Guest
Nicely said tie. I actually believe for the most part the same thing and and I think most people do to. If we weren't optimistic then why would we plan on vacations next year or kids college or retirement. Sure, we bitch about some of the aspects around it like pension fund troubles for one but none the less we still plan on retiring one day which means for one we believe we will still be here to do that and for the most part our lives will be very much the same as they are now. I'm so optimistic I'm planning on living forever. Realistic? No, of course not but I also believe the more reasons you have to live the longer you will live so I'm going to make sure my list of reasons only grows longer thus I have to live forever! LOL! I think my honey-do list fits that description. LMAO!
You made a good point about Katrina and ironically last night I was talking with our Sort manager about the current United Way drive and he said he was just blown away by what people were giving this year as one Pt. Timer was giving $20 per week and for them that's a lot of money. Say what you want about United Way and UPS but when you see people step up like this with something that is totally voluntary it does re-verify that charity and caring still is alive and well in the heart of man.
We have our warts and boils on the surface but deep inside where it counts we're a pretty damn good lot of folks afterall and I personally believe we display that "Made in Image of God" part of us when events like Katrina happen and nobody is there to fill the gap. When I look at events like Katrina I have to wonder what other ails of mankind would be solved if govt's and special interests just stepped aside and got out of the way and let the people themselves noodle it out. I don't have a feeling but I have a true hardcore belief that just plain people working with just plain people could make our world a fantastic and wonderful place to live. That how positive on mankind I am.
Here tie, you wanna wear my rose colored glasses?
You made a good point about Katrina and ironically last night I was talking with our Sort manager about the current United Way drive and he said he was just blown away by what people were giving this year as one Pt. Timer was giving $20 per week and for them that's a lot of money. Say what you want about United Way and UPS but when you see people step up like this with something that is totally voluntary it does re-verify that charity and caring still is alive and well in the heart of man.
We have our warts and boils on the surface but deep inside where it counts we're a pretty damn good lot of folks afterall and I personally believe we display that "Made in Image of God" part of us when events like Katrina happen and nobody is there to fill the gap. When I look at events like Katrina I have to wonder what other ails of mankind would be solved if govt's and special interests just stepped aside and got out of the way and let the people themselves noodle it out. I don't have a feeling but I have a true hardcore belief that just plain people working with just plain people could make our world a fantastic and wonderful place to live. That how positive on mankind I am.
Here tie, you wanna wear my rose colored glasses?
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wkmac
Guest
Sorry Tie but I now have to take it all back. I read the link below and just became completely bummed out!
It is pathetic this clown gets any attention but as I said we humans have our warts.
It is pathetic this clown gets any attention but as I said we humans have our warts.
M
moreluck
Guest
wkmac...
Paris can have him, then he won't be our embarrassment anymore. Oui?
Paris can have him, then he won't be our embarrassment anymore. Oui?
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wkmac
Guest
This op-ed although a little dated since the author passed away in 1995' has a comedic thread to it since Dick Cheney is painted in many quarters as Satan incarnate. The other interesting thing about this piece concerns the background of persons and events discussed. Many of the personalities even a hundred years ago sound very much like what we see out of our leaders today and the abuse of gov't by special interests. For those thinking gov't is an anti-trust protector it should throw out a crumb or two for something to think about. Remember, Trust God but from all others only take cash!
Proves once again the wisdom of Solomon who said, "There is nothing new under the sun!"
Proves once again the wisdom of Solomon who said, "There is nothing new under the sun!"
S
susiedriver
Guest
Tomorrow's (10-16) NYTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/education/16college.html
Taxpayer support for public universities, measured per student, has plunged more precipitously since 2001 than at any time in two decades, and several university presidents are calling the decline a de facto privatization of the institutions that played a crucial role in the creation of the American middle class.
...
At an academic forum last month, John D. Wiley, chancellor of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, said that during the years after World War II, America built the world's greatest system of public higher education.
"We're now in the process of dismantling all that," Dr. Wiley said
edited for url
(Message edited by susiedriver on October 15, 2005)
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/16/education/16college.html
Taxpayer support for public universities, measured per student, has plunged more precipitously since 2001 than at any time in two decades, and several university presidents are calling the decline a de facto privatization of the institutions that played a crucial role in the creation of the American middle class.
...
At an academic forum last month, John D. Wiley, chancellor of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, said that during the years after World War II, America built the world's greatest system of public higher education.
"We're now in the process of dismantling all that," Dr. Wiley said
edited for url
(Message edited by susiedriver on October 15, 2005)
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