Bye Bye Pension and Hello to matching 401k coming in 2023?

[DELACROIX]

Whether or not this contract passes, the pension as we know will be replaced by a matching 401K in 2023 IMHO. I just wonder who gets grandfathered and who joins the matching 401K, would it be as simple as if your not vested by 2023 you go directly into the new plan? What would happen to most us who have more than 5 yrs with the company? This is all hypothetical, but I think the writing is on the wall. Especially after reading the memorandum of understanding.

Before you get too excited...Read the (federal law) called ERISA and get most of your answers on your vested rights with pensions. Any vested time in any traditional pension is protected and can not be taken away. They tried to break that requirement when they tried reducing the Central's retirees benefits several years ago..it failed...problem still exists..no solution on the horizon..and nobody wants the financial responsibility to correct it.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

$6000 for life for you $1.8 million

Ya, I'm a big fan of the 4% rule too.
But that's going to leave alot of money behind when he dies.

The 6k pension he is talking about dies with him, so it's not really a fair comparison. The pension is worth a lot less than that 1.8mill in the grand scheme of things.

You sacrifice alot of money for that false sense of security they "promise".

 

[Ancient Alien]

How much 401k money will I need to draw $6k a month @ age 55?

Exactly! Plus, you still get that if you live to 100!

Have them compute their 401k to your $6k a month for 45-years. That's $3,240,000... seriously doubt anyone here has over $3m in their 401.

You can never out live your pension!

You know the management who lost their pension, you know the ones that believe their 2016 friend-250 is too old and they need another.

After taxes(if lucky), they'll get maybe $250,000 cash from their 401. They buy 5 acres, a cabin... new truck and car and POOF by 65 they'll be calling family to help bail them out. Because their 401k will be toast as the hourlies will never out live theirs!

Vote YES!

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Can I get some investment advice??

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Exactly! Plus, you still get that if you live to 100!

Have them compute their 401k to your $6k a month for 45-years. That's $3,240,000... seriously doubt anyone here has over $3m in their 401.

You can never out live your pension!

You know the management who lost their pension, you know the ones that believe their 2016 friend-250 is too old and they need another.

After taxes(if lucky), they'll get maybe $250,000 cash from their 401. They buy 5 acres, a cabin... new truck and car and POOF by 65 they'll be calling family to help bail them out. Because their 401k will be toast as the hourlies will never out live theirs!

Vote YES!

Wrong
You and Tony Laguna must have been home schooled by the same crack whore.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Can I get some investment advice??

Never stop buying.

 

[JustDeliverIt]

Whether or not this contract passes, the pension as we know will be replaced by a matching 401K in 2023 IMHO. I just wonder who gets grandfathered and who joins the matching 401K, would it be as simple as if your not vested by 2023 you go directly into the new plan? What would happen to most us who have more than 5 yrs with the company? This is all hypothetical, but I think the writing is on the wall. Especially after reading the memorandum of understanding.

Let's vote down this contract and get it straightened out before we worry about the hypotheticals of the next contract.

 

[rod]

Whether or not this contract passes, the pension as we know will be replaced by a matching 401K in 2023 IMHO. I just wonder who gets grandfathered and who joins the matching 401K, would it be as simple as if your not vested by 2023 you go directly into the new plan? What would happen to most us who have more than 5 yrs with the company? This is all hypothetical, but I think the writing is on the wall. Especially after reading the memorandum of understanding.

The way you people seem to be letting them walk all over you I would say No pension and No 401k.

 

[Inthegame]

The problem is that next contract we have to negotiate to keep our pension.

Really? Prior to 2008, there was no MOU, and your pension has been in existence since the fifties.

 

[Inthegame]

Before you get too excited...Read the (federal law) called ERISA and get most of your answers on your vested rights with pensions. Any vested time in any traditional pension is protected and can not be taken away. They tried to break that requirement when they tried reducing the Central's retirees benefits several years ago..it failed...problem still exists..no solution on the horizon..and nobody wants the financial responsibility to correct it.

And before you get too excited, no one broke any requirements of ERISA since Congress passed MPRA in 2014 and removed the protective provisions of ERISA which now allows red zone plans to reduce benefits. In a bizarre ruling, the Treasury dept refused the "rescue" plan as being insufficient to save the CSPF.
Somehow inaction was deemed sufficient. Madness.

 

[1whofan]

Before you get too excited...Read the (federal law) called ERISA and get most of your answers on your vested rights with pensions. Any vested time in any traditional pension is protected and can not be taken away. They tried to break that requirement when they tried reducing the Central's retirees benefits several years ago..it failed...problem still exists..no solution on the horizon..and nobody wants the financial responsibility to correct it.

Not excited at all just wondering if we go to a matching 401k or ?, what is going to be the cut off point between the old pension and new pension in terms of seniority.

 

[1whofan]

Total misinformation, but if you want to listen to this then you are part of the real problem. We cant save members from themselves.

I said this was a hypothetical based on what I see UPS is doing to non-union pensions and the wording on the memorandum of understanding in the proposed contract. I don't feel I am part of the problem or need to be saved. This is my opinion if I'm wrong I will admit it, but I think that something is brewing for 2023.

 

[1989]

i dunno that’s half of what i’ll have coming out of mine

You’ll take home 12k a month & age 55? So tell me how much will you have and I’ll divide by 2.

 

[1whofan]

Let's vote down this contract and get it straightened out before we worry about the hypotheticals of the next contract.

Agreed, but like I said whether it passes or not the writing is on the wall (IMHO).

 

[DELACROIX]

And before you get too excited, no one broke any requirements of ERISA since Congress passed MPRA in 2014 and removed the protective provisions of ERISA which now allows red zone plans to reduce benefits. In a bizarre ruling, the Treasury dept refused the "rescue" plan as being insufficient to save the CSPF.
Somehow inaction was deemed sufficient. Madness.

The treasury department refused the "rescue plan" after heavy lobbying from UPS claiming that they were being singled out unfairly and paying more than their share to cover their commitment of paying for any offset created with insolvency or reduction of benefits. The treasury department for it's part does not want no part in paying their "Pension Guarantee Insurance" which is currently in trouble with the discontinuing of traditional pension funds in favor of 401Ks that is running amok with employers. A good example would be the UPS Retirement Plan in five year time (2023).

It is kind of scary to think about how bad this plan is doing and it's future, companies and corporations are bailing out as soon as they can, just waiting for the best time to eat the costs.

It is Madness...

 

[dudebro]

And if we have another market downturn like 08-09?

The market is usually back where it started 5 years later. And then higher. No other asset appreciates as well over a 30 year period.

 

[East coast navy]

The company wants to offer something competitive to their employees so they don’t go somewhere else (like their rivals) but also can afford.... The really big problem is the company doesn’t like it when they put out money for a model that they advertise to new hires and exciting employees but it goes to crap for reasons of the union has control of the investments, how the union is running the pension and also pensions become a balancing act... Making sure there is enough members putting in to having enough money for peolpe going out.

Why do you think ups was one of the company’s that lobbied for the pension reform act of 2006.

 

[1989]

Ya, I'm a big fan of the 4% rule too.
But that's going to leave alot of money behind when he dies.

The 6k pension he is talking about dies with him, so it's not really a fair comparison. The pension is worth a lot less than that 1.8mill in the grand scheme of things.

You alot of money for that false sense of security they "promise".

I didn’t, won’t sacrifice any money

 

[UnconTROLLed]

A lot of people have no clue how a 401k works. The union and their pension scheme love and thrive off of this ignorance.

 

[Inthegame]

A lot of people have no clue how a 401k works. The union and their pension scheme love and thrive off of this ignorance.

Really? So why did those bad old union negotiators include participation in the UPS/Teamsters 401K plan for members in past negotiations?
Never mind, the answer doesn't fit your anti-union bias.