Central States Pension Reduction Plan Letter announces Cuts - October 2015

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Thats just too funny. LOL! Truck drivers that can invest. If they could invest they wouldn't be truck drivers. They would be on Wall St. Some do. I do invest. I lost 40% of my investments in 2008 When the banksters tanked the stock market and our economy. 401K was dreamed up by corporations so they could get out of pension funds. God forbid a corporation looking out for an employee that was loyal for 30 years.

We all lost in 2008.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Also, funds in those endangered or critical status' must submit a recovery plan. Basically a "we know its friend'ed up, here's how we're gonna fix it."NE Plan has come up with a pretty good plan. If I'm not mistaken it's % funded has increased over the last few years.

NE Plan was bought out by UPS.

 

[ezmoney5150]

Everyone lost a lot in 2008.

I've made it up and more since.

How do you think? If you lost $20,000 you never regain that. If you lost 20 and regained 100 you're still. 20 behind.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

How do you think? If you lost $20,000 you never regain that. If you lost 20 and regained 100 you're still. 20 behind.

You don't "lose" until you "sell.

 

[realbrown1]

How do you think? If you lost $20,000 you never regain that. If you lost 20 and regained 100 you're still. 20 behind.

You don't "lose" until you "sell.

Thank you Dave.

Better words than I would have used to get the point across.

 

[Inthegame]

But you're forgetting about the last contract....they can now divert pension monies to fund Teamcare..... and with our aging population and more than 30,000 drivers eligible to retire.....it's only a matter of time before they bleed those funds dry also.

The $40 per year increases aren't "pension monies" but negotiated benefit increases to be allocated between H&W/Pension plans, with $20/$20 split designations the first three years. (Some very successful green zone Pension plans have had trustee discretion over splits for years). Even if the split goes 20/20, 30/10 or 40/0 in years 4 and 5, the first three years of 20/20 puts an additional $60 per employee per week into Pension, well over $400 per week in many plans. That's not chicken feed.
Unless all these 30,000 eligible to retire (and many are in UPS's single employer plan) are in struggling multi-employer plans, not much bleeding will be taking place.
My response was to a specific post warning of widespread doom. Reread my initial post. The PBGC states 9 out of 10 multi-employer plan participants will not be subjected to benefit reductions. Hardly the same fate of Ponzi scheme dupes.

 

[P700slave]

Current employees are covered but do have the kicker of the minimum age requirement will start increasing in a few years. It looks like years of service pensions will be phased out.

So at age 59, I will have 35 years fulltime credit, and I still will have to work until 65? UPS is going to love having a ton of 65 year olds driving routes. LOL

 

[Mugarolla]

So at age 59, I will have 35 years fulltime credit, and I still will have to work until 65? UPS is going to love having a ton of 65 year olds driving routes. LOL

Maybe one reason why they agreed to make up any CSPF cuts.

They don't want 60 some year old package car drivers.

 

[oldngray]

So at age 59, I will have 35 years fulltime credit, and I still will have to work until 65? UPS is going to love having a ton of 65 year olds driving routes. LOL

Starting in 2021 (5 years from the implementation of its proposed pension rescue plan) Central States will begin to gradually increase the minimum age at which participants can retire (early retirement) without reductions for pre-age 65 retirements.

You should be OK because of UPS but it does look like years of service pensions will eventually go away but that would be a contract issue with UPS. Not a good omen for the future though.

 

[rickyb]

record corporate profits for at least 20 years possibly more.

falling living standards and wages for workers.

capitalism is failing you. but what do you expect when you let a small minority of people make all the decisions?

workers have to decide for themselves how to run the companies they work in.

 

[Smokin]

So at age 59, I will have 35 years fulltime credit, and I still will have to work until 65? UPS is going to love having a ton of 65 year olds driving routes. LOL

My husband is 62 and we had planned on 3 years going out and this happens. We retire one year after the new contract so do you go out before or do you hang on and get possible screwed even more?

 

[Bubblehead]

If they are smart, those who are UPSer's of that 30,000, might want to consider retiring before 2018 and another concessionary contract rolls around?

At what point will there be more full timers with no skin in Central States, than with.
I'm betting UPS has that date pinned down and are already planning on how to get out from under that guarantee in the ensuing contract.

 

[McGee]

Those of us who have 10 to 30 years in CSPF and the rest in the UPS fund will be outnumbered in 10 years by those strictly in the UPS plan, or with very few years in the CSPF.

It will still cost UPS millions to make up our cuts from age 65 and beyond.

As we all die out, their liability will be zero, but that could be 30 to 40 years down the road.

I know as we die, UPS will be paying less and less, but they will still be paying until we are all gone.

This is all contingent upon whether we actually receive any cuts.

I don't have a lot in the ups plan , yet... But I do have (had)a little in CSPF, well, I did.... [emoji17]...I knew it would be rough, but damn..

Too bad I can't transfer it to the ups plan

 

[gonein2011]

I have a question that I hope someone can answer.
A friend I worked with left UPS around 20 years ago and had around 15 years with the company. He got his letter from CS and it says his pension will not be reduced since he was "terminated" on December 29,2007. If this is true his pension will be in the ballpark of the employees who worked 30 years and retired between 1997 and 2007 and are facing the cuts. Doesn't seem fair. He's a friend and I wish nothing bad on anyone but I have friends that retired before January 1, 2008 and I am sure they are not going to be happy about this. All opinions are welcomed.

 

[Ms.PacMan]

My husband is 62 and we had planned on 3 years going out and this happens. We retire one year after the new contract so do you go out before or do you hang on and get possible screwed even more?

You'll have a pretty good idea of what will happen in the next contract when they start negotiations, probably in the fall of 2017 or earlier.

 

[Catatonic]

I have a question that I hope someone can answer.
A friend I worked with left UPS around 20 years ago and had around 15 years with the company. He got his letter from CS and it says his pension will not be reduced since he was "terminated" on December 29,2007. If this is true his pension will be in the ballpark of the employees who worked 30 years and retired between 1997 and 2007 and are facing the cuts. Doesn't seem fair. He's a friend and I wish nothing bad on anyone but I have friends that retired before January 1, 2008 and I am sure they are not going to be happy about this. All opinions are welcomed.

Life's not fair.
Get use to it.

 

[Lead Belly]

I have a question that I hope someone can answer.
A friend I worked with left UPS around 20 years ago and had around 15 years with the company. He got his letter from CS and it says his pension will not be reduced since he was "terminated" on December 29,2007. If this is true his pension will be in the ballpark of the employees who worked 30 years and retired between 1997 and 2007 and are facing the cuts. Doesn't seem fair. He's a friend and I wish nothing bad on anyone but I have friends that retired before January 1, 2008 and I am sure they are not going to be happy about this. All opinions are welcomed.

He will be getting the reduction. It sucks but it's reality.

 

[Lead Belly]

He will be getting the reduction. It sucks but it's reality.

Just imagine being from an orphan company.

 

[Catatonic]

This is because pension plans are ponzi schemes relying on contributions from new workers to partly pay for retired workers.

They should be set up like 401k plans with their individual accounts.

Money put in by you, is for you and you alone.

Then when you retire, you buy an annuity with your money.

Cashing out the same amount of savings for an annuity in 2006 would have got one twice the monthly payment as buying one now.
Great for someone retiring in 2006 but suck ass for now.

Please think about this.
If you still don't get it, I'll explain when I get back from the doctor's office.

Everyone lost a lot in 2008.

I've made it up and more since.

OK ... you still don't get it
Let me lay this out in a scenario for you:

R BrownOld had $500k in his 401 k in 2006 and bought a lifetime annuity that paid out $6000 a month based on 6 .25 ROI expected by the Insurance company that issues the Annuity.

R BrownNew had $500k in his 401k but lost 40% in 2008-9 but by 2015 had built back to $500k in 401k.

R BrownNew decides it is time to hang em up but when he looks into annuities he discovers a hard fact.
Interest rates have declined from 6.25% in 2006 to 2% in 2013.
Consequently, his $500K only buys $3000 for a lifetime annuity.

There are downside risks in every direction when one converts to a self-managed retirement plan.

 

[realbrown1]

OK ... you still don't get it
Let me lay this out in a scenario for you:

R BrownOld had $500k in his 401 k in 2006 and bought a lifetime annuity that paid out $6000 a month based on 6 .25 ROI expected by the Insurance company that issues the Annuity.

R BrownNew had $500k in his 401k but lost 40% in 2008-9 but by 2015 had built back to $500k in 401k.

R BrownNew decides it is time to hang em up but when he looks into annuities he discovers a hard fact.
Interest rates have declined from 6.25% in 2006 to 2% in 2013.
Consequently, his $500K only buys $3000 for a lifetime annuity.

There are downside risks in every direction when one converts to a self-managed retirement plan.

That's life.

Full of risks.