Chattanooga, TN Marine Shooter

[upschuck]

If the laws on the books were followed, it wouldn't be.

You cannot knowingly sell a gun to a criminal. If that were honored, it'd be fine.

Arm more people, so when these a-holes who shoot up Schools, movie theaters, churches, and military recruitment facilities pull out their guns, they get blown away.

Yeah, I know whether someone I've never met is legally able to own a gun.

 

[Future]

So if you sell your old used car to some guy who gets drunk and drives it head on into a minivan full of kids, does that make you responsible for the crime he committed with that car?

if you sold him the car while he was drunk... I would think you r liable to a degree

 

[soberups]

Yeah, I know whether someone I've never met is legally able to own a gun.

When I sell guns to a private party who I have never met before, I require them to show me a concealed handgun license. If they dont have one, I require them to meet me at the local gun range and show me some guns that they already own. Otherwise, no sale.

 

[soberups]

This is a STUPID comparison towards guns. Automobiles are not designed weapons. Automobiles have a litany of registration provisions before selling a vehicle that eliminates responsibility.

THATS CALLED REGISTRATION.

GUNS that are bought by straw buyers have NO SUCH REGISTRATION.

Dont be desperate bro.

TOS.

Far more people are killed in drunk driving accidents than by guns.

If I sell a car to a person who goes out a month later and gets drunk and kills someone with that car, am I responsible?

If I sell a gun to a person who goes out a month later and kills someone with it, am I responsible?

Its a pretty scary precedent to hold one person responsible for the criminal choices made by another person with an inantimate object.

 

[superballs63]

Yeah, I know whether someone I've never met is legally able to own a gun.

Have you ever actually sold a gun? If you don't KNOW that they can legally own a gun, then (by law) you can't KNOWINGLY sell it to them.

Seems like the current laws are fine, they just need to be upheld by criminals. That's not too much to ask

 

[soberups]

Yeah, I know whether someone I've never met is legally able to own a gun.

OK, so how is this for a compromise?

Lets go ahead and require background checks for all private party sales, which is the so-called "loophole" the anti's keep whining about. However....

1. The background checks need to be free. The anti's want them, let the anti's pay for them. No one should have to pay a fee to exercise a Constitutional right.

2. Implement nationwide, "shall-issue", 50-state reciprocity concealed handgun permits. These require training and a thorough background check anyway, so possession of said permit would be considered de facto proof of legality for gun ownership and would exempt its holder from the background check requirement when purchasing a gun.

Training, licensing and background checks are what the anti's keep demanding. Well, lets give them what they want....but lets get what we want in return.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

OK, so how is this for a compromise?

Lets go ahead and require background checks for all private party sales, which is the so-called "loophole" the anti's keep whining about. However....

1. The background checks need to be free. The anti's want them, let the anti's pay for them. No one should have to pay a fee to exercise a Constitutional right.

2. Implement nationwide, "shall-issue", 50-state reciprocity concealed handgun permits. These require training and a thorough background check anyway, so possession of said permit would be considered de facto proof of legality for gun ownership and would exempt its holder from the background check requirement when purchasing a gun.

Training, licensing and background checks are what the anti's keep demanding. Well, lets give them what they want....but lets get what we want in return.

I like it but there are too many anti's that just don't want us to have guns period. They would never go for it.

 

[moreluck]

pretty soon we are going to need a program to keep track of these shooters.....who did what, where and when ??? They are starting to get all mixed up now...........starting with Columbine to the present.....we need a program.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

pretty soon we are going to need a program to keep track of these shooters.....who did what, where and when ??? They are starting to get all mixed up now...........starting with Columbine to the present.....we need a program.

And keep track of how many of the areas they happened in were "GUN FREE ZONES." Because that is the most common denominator in the shootings.

 

[moreluck]

 

[upschuck]

When I sell guns to a private party who I have never met before, I require them to show me a concealed handgun license. If they dont have one, I require them to meet me at the local gun range and show me some guns that they already own. Otherwise, no sale.

So you are already doing privately what should be done with every sale, checking. I doubt many people do that.

By the way, how does them showing you what guns the have at a gun range prove they are able to own a gun?

 

[upschuck]

If I sell a gun to a person who goes out a month later and kills someone with it, am I responsible?

If that person does not own that gun legally, then I would say yes. A check would release that liability towards that seller.

 

[upschuck]

Have you ever actually sold a gun? If you don't KNOW that they can legally own a gun, then (by law) you can't KNOWINGLY sell it to them.

Seems like the current laws are fine, they just need to be upheld by criminals. That's not too much to ask

That's why they are criminals, because they uphold the law.

 

[upschuck]

OK, so how is this for a compromise?

Lets go ahead and require background checks for all private party sales, which is the so-called "loophole" the anti's keep whining about. However....

1. The background checks need to be free. The anti's want them, let the anti's pay for them. No one should have to pay a fee to exercise a Constitutional right.

2. Implement nationwide, "shall-issue", 50-state reciprocity concealed handgun permits. These require training and a thorough background check anyway, so possession of said permit would be considered de facto proof of legality for gun ownership and would exempt its holder from the background check requirement when purchasing a gun.

Training, licensing and background checks are what the anti's keep demanding. Well, lets give them what they want....but lets get what we want in return.

I could go for that as long as the permits are only given after true training classes(I know someone who used to live in Iowa, and he said class was a joke), and assuming there is a good way for permits to be revoked when necessary.

 

[The Other Side]

Far more people are killed in drunk driving accidents than by guns.

If I sell a car to a person who goes out a month later and gets drunk and kills someone with that car, am I responsible?

If I sell a gun to a person who goes out a month later and kills someone with it, am I responsible?

Its a pretty scary precedent to hold one person responsible for the criminal choices made by another person with an inantimate object.

You and I have already had this dance before, and no matter how many times you try to step on my toes, I have to correct you.

First, lets deal with your first assertion...

"Far more people are killed in drunk driving accidents than by guns."

Of course, only a gun freak would think this is true, and of course, it isnt. In 17 states in 2014, GUN deaths out paced automobile deaths including in YOUR STATE of OREGON.

http://boingboing.net/2015/04/10/the-17-states-where-guns-kill.html

As firearm deaths and automobile deaths converge, the trend is changing to GUNS killing more people than cars BRO. You might want to ditch that tired old NRA bullcrap that cars kill more people than guns.

Lets deal with your second assertion...

"If I sell a car to a person who goes out a month later and gets drunk and kills someone with that car, am I responsible?"

Of course, this is a stupid question as a whole, but it needs qualifying... First, if you sold the car and DID NOT re-register the car, and sign off on liability, as well as selling it to a driver WITHOUT a valid drivers license or under the age of 18..

You bet your ash you would be responsible for the accident.

Thats why you fill out the dmv REGISTRATION forms which includes a RELEASE OF LIABILITY form in it. That way, you WOULDNT be responsible.

And the best assertion of them all is this one..

"If I sell a gun to a person who goes out a month later and kills someone with it, am I responsible?"

YES, and you SHOULD BE. You should be considered an ACCESSORY to any homocide with a gun that YOU sold without checking an ID, completing a background check and registering the gun.

You should be punished to ONE year for every person killed with that weapon.

Just because you want to circumvent the legality of checking someones background before selling them a gun, doesnt mean you escape responsibility.

You can pretend to be blind to the intentions of the buyer, and if the gun YOU sold ends up shooting kids in a school, then you should be prosecuted and sentence to jail.

This is how we can control guns and help to prevent them ending up in the wrong hands, but we all know, you gun freaks wouldnt have that for ONE SECOND, because that brings the prices of the Straw buyer guns DOWN, and thats bad for business.

If every person who sold a gun had to do the same as licensed dealers, there would be no MARK up on guns and no blackmarket for gangs.

Its guys like YOU sober, that I would like to see out of the gun sellling business.

That chump change you make selling guns without registration or records will eventually end up in a killing someplace, and it cant be traced back to you.

Thats the real problem with gun laws.

You and anyone else who thinks that selling guns privately is a good thing for society.

TOS.

 

[soberups]

So you are already doing privately what should be done with every sale, checking. I doubt many people do that.

By the way, how does them showing you what guns the have at a gun range prove they are able to own a gun?

It doesnt necessarily prove that they are legal, but most people who are prohibited from legal gun ownership are neither able nor willing to haul a bunch of illegal guns with them while buying another one. Plus, its not like I would be providing them with something that they didnt already have to begin with.

 

[superballs63]

You and I have already had this dance before, and no matter how many times you try to step on my toes, I have to correct you.

First, lets deal with your first assertion...

"Far more people are killed in drunk driving accidents than by guns."

Of course, only a gun freak would think this is true, and of course, it isnt. In 17 states in 2014, GUN deaths out paced automobile deaths including in YOUR STATE of OREGON.

http://boingboing.net/2015/04/10/the-17-states-where-guns-kill.html

As firearm deaths and automobile deaths converge, the trend is changing to GUNS killing more people than cars BRO. You might want to ditch that tired old NRA bullcrap that cars kill more people than guns.

Lets deal with your second assertion...

"If I sell a car to a person who goes out a month later and gets drunk and kills someone with that car, am I responsible?"

Of course, this is a stupid question as a whole, but it needs qualifying... First, if you sold the car and DID NOT re-register the car, and sign off on liability, as well as selling it to a driver WITHOUT a valid drivers license or under the age of 18..

You bet your ash you would be responsible for the accident.

Thats why you fill out the dmv REGISTRATION forms which includes a RELEASE OF LIABILITY form in it. That way, you WOULDNT be responsible.

And the best assertion of them all is this one..

"If I sell a gun to a person who goes out a month later and kills someone with it, am I responsible?"

YES, and you SHOULD BE. You should be considered an ACCESSORY to any homocide with a gun that YOU sold without checking an ID, completing a background check and registering the gun.

You should be punished to ONE year for every person killed with that weapon.

Just because you want to circumvent the legality of checking someones background before selling them a gun, doesnt mean you escape responsibility.

You can pretend to be blind to the intentions of the buyer, and if the gun YOU sold ends up shooting kids in a school, then you should be prosecuted and sentence to jail.

This is how we can control guns and help to prevent them ending up in the wrong hands, but we all know, you gun freaks wouldnt have that for ONE SECOND, because that brings the prices of the Straw buyer guns DOWN, and thats bad for business.

If every person who sold a gun had to do the same as licensed dealers, there would be no MARK up on guns and no blackmarket for gangs.

Its guys like YOU sober, that I would like to see out of the gun sellling business.

That chump change you make selling guns without registration or records will eventually end up in a killing someplace, and it cant be traced back to you.

Thats the real problem with gun laws.

You and anyone else who thinks that selling guns privately is a good thing for society.

TOS.

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

You and I have already had this dance before, and no matter how many times you try to step on my toes, I have to correct you.

First, lets deal with your first assertion...

"Far more people are killed in drunk driving accidents than by guns."

Of course, only a gun freak would think this is true, and of course, it isnt. In 17 states in 2014, GUN deaths out paced automobile deaths including in YOUR STATE of OREGON.

http://boingboing.net/2015/04/10/the-17-states-where-guns-kill.html

As firearm deaths and automobile deaths converge, the trend is changing to GUNS killing more people than cars BRO. You might want to ditch that tired old NRA bullcrap that cars kill more people than guns.

You conveniently left out the other 33 states and the national total for both gun deaths and drunk driving deaths. So your first "rebuttal" is null and void. I won't post the actual results that you conveniently left out because I now that you already know what they will show and also that the reason for omitting them was because they bring your narrative down like a house of cards.

Lets deal with your second assertion...

"If I sell a car to a person who goes out a month later and gets drunk and kills someone with that car, am I responsible?"

Of course, this is a stupid question as a whole, but it needs qualifying... First, if you sold the car and DID NOT re-register the car, and sign off on liability, as well as selling it to a driver WITHOUT a valid drivers license or under the age of 18..

You bet your ash you would be responsible for the accident.

Thats why you fill out the dmv REGISTRATION forms which includes a RELEASE OF LIABILITY form in it. That way, you WOULDNT be responsible.

Again your are leaving important information out. This time its the comparisons that shows that the laws/requirements in order to sell a car or gun to an individual are quite different. You are judging the scenario as if the seller of the car just handed the keys to the buyer with only the cash coming from the buyer without any other paperwork like its a private seller knowingly handing a gun to a private buyer. And you re dong so under the false narrative that the seller is knowingly selling a car to someone that is not legal to drive. Those actions render your judgement, which you aren't qualified to make, null and void. Again.

And the best assertion of them all is this one..


"If I sell a gun to a person who goes out a month later and kills someone with it, am I responsible?"

YES, and you SHOULD BE. You should be considered an ACCESSORY to any homocide with a gun that YOU sold without checking an ID, completing a background check and registering the gun.

You should be punished to ONE year for every person killed with that weapon.

Just because you want to circumvent the legality of checking someones background before selling them a gun, doesnt mean you escape responsibility.

You can pretend to be blind to the intentions of the buyer, and if the gun YOU sold ends up shooting kids in a school, then you should be prosecuted and sentence to jail.

This is how we can control guns and help to prevent them ending up in the wrong hands, but we all know, you gun freaks wouldnt have that for ONE SECOND, because that brings the prices of the Straw buyer guns DOWN, and thats bad for business.

If every person who sold a gun had to do the same as licensed dealers, there would be no MARK up on guns and no blackmarket for gangs.

Its guys like YOU sober, that I would like to see out of the gun sellling business.

That chump change you make selling guns without registration or records will eventually end up in a killing someplace, and it cant be traced back to you.

Thats the real problem with gun laws.

You and anyone else who thinks that selling guns privately is a good thing for society.

TOS.

You based your whole "rebuttal" to the scenario on your opinions as if they were actual laws on the books. They are not. Currently...it is perfectly legal to sell a gun to an individual as an individual without a background check and without any liability should the buyer decide to commit a gun crime. You can rant and rant and rant until the keys break off of your laptop about how you think the seller should do a background check and how you think they should be punished for selling it to someone that ends up committing a gun crime but the reality is that unless the authorities can prove that the seller knowingly sold to someone banned from owning weapons per the GCA then all we end up with is a seller that just happened to LEGALLY sell a gun to someone that decided to do wrong. You'll just have to get over it.

Sometimes you just make it too easy.

 

[The Other Side]

Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Coming from you, thats no surprise. Details arent something you specialize in.

TOS.

 

[superballs63]

Coming from you, thats no surprise. Details arent something you specialize in.

TOS.

Coming from a guy that whenever I call you out on statistics or FACTS, you turn and run away. That's HILARIOUS!!

I could cite specifics, but there are far too many to list. My wife won't want me screwing around here all night.