Class-action grievance against Integrad.

[UnconTROLLed]

A new prospective driver in his thirty day period told me that his ft supe trainer (15-16 yrs of ft experience) told him to walk thru the yards if it was closer and quicker.

I was also trained to walk through yards - not by the Integrad trainer, but the FT on-car sup after Integrad.

The funny thing is this sup also told me to "accelerate as quickly as possible , to the speed limit, never over". No more than a year or two after that, we've got messages and training sessions/PCM in DIAD to accelerate SLOWLY and save fuel.

 

[Corralz]

I was part of that class in portland. It was really overboard how we had to stay at a hotel but it was also nice at the same time. less distractions but we shouldnt be required to stay there. thats dumb.

 

[Signature Only]

I was sent to driving school at about the 10 year point of my career. Back then it was two weeks long and it rotated between Albany and Syracuse (NY). Those who worked in or near either of those two hubs were allowed to go home every day while those who had to travel 50 or more miles were put up in a hotel and paid mileage for the round trip from their home center. The training consisted of 4 days in the classroom and 1 day on road for each of the two weeks. Our class had a wide range of "students", from new hires, both hourly and management, to veteran drivers such as myself. Unlike Integrad, there was not as much emphasis on the more trivial parts of the job, such as uniform appearance standards and the DOK, and more on how to do the job. The DIAD was still in it's early stages of development and implementation and much time was spent learning how to use it. We all worked together to make sure everyone graduated from the class.

I will say that the same level of training could be provided in one week at the center level through a combination of classroom and on-road training.

That's pretty much how it was for us. 1 week at driver's school, you could stay at a hotel at company expense or with friends if you wanted.

Then 1 month on a training route being slowly brought up to a full day's work.

But they don't do it that way anymore...not for a long time.

 

[10 point]

I was also trained to walk through yards - not by the Integrad trainer, but the FT on-car sup after Integrad.

The funny thing is this sup also told me to "accelerate as quickly as possible , to the speed limit, never over". No more than a year or two after that, we've got messages and training sessions/PCM in DIAD to accelerate SLOWLY and save fuel.

Use designated walk paths?
The same supe was backing a seasonal's PC to maneuver into position so he could drive out of the inside of the building. (The center manager had a vet driver or a ft supe pull all the seasonal drivers vehicles out to avoid in center avoidables).
After watching the supe back multiple times without sounding his horn I walked over, opened his passenger door and said "honk, honk?". The (unsafe) seasonal driver in the jump seat laughed. The supe didn't.

 

[soberups]

I was part of that class in portland. It was really overboard how we had to stay at a hotel but it was also nice at the same time. less distractions but we shouldnt be required to stay there. thats dumb.

Actually, I would not have a problem with requiring trainees to stay at a hotel, but that isn't really the point.

The point....is that the company does not have the right to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of our employment.

If the company wishes to change the terms and conditions of employment, it needs to negotiate those changes with our union first. Requiring trainees to stay at a hotel? Fine, just put it in the contract.

This is the same reason I have always been such a pain in the ass to management regarding having to memorize the DOK. By itself its really no big deal, but when the company started declaring that it was a "requirement" and threatening discipline to people who failed to correctly regurgitate the material verbatim, I dug in my heels. If they want to make DOK knowledge a condition of my employment they can negotiate with my union and I will abide by whatever is agreed upon. Otherwise, if we let the company change the rules as they go, job security as we know it is a thing of the past.

 

[soberups]

Use designated walk paths?
The same supe was backing a seasonal's PC to maneuver into position so he could drive out of the inside of the building. (The center manager had a vet driver or a ft supe pull all the seasonal drivers vehicles out to avoid in center avoidables).
After watching the supe back multiple times without sounding his horn I walked over, opened his passenger door and said "honk, honk?". The (unsafe) seasonal driver in the jump seat laughed. The supe didn't.

If UPS is going to make a business decision to park its vehicles so close to each other in the building that they are practically touching, then it needs to accept the fact that paint scratches on those vehicles is a natural consequence of that choice and quit freaking out about "accidents" and "safety" if we happen to rub against a car that is parked half a millimeter away. I remember during peak watching 2 sups and 2 drivers spend about 15 minutes trying to gently maneuver a car out that was touching the one next to it. That's an hour of wasted time during peak when every minute counted and stops were already coming back due to the 60 hr DOT rule. There is a reason God put brown paint on this earth, just pull the damn car out and get to work and let the mechanic touch up the paint scratch when you get in at night!

 

[10 point]

If UPS is going to make a business decision to park its vehicles so close to each other in the building that they are practically touching, then it needs to accept the fact that paint scratches on those vehicles is a natural consequence of that choice and quit freaking out about "accidents" and "safety" if we happen to rub against a car that is parked half a millimeter away. I remember during peak watching 2 sups and 2 drivers spend about 15 minutes trying to gently maneuver a car out that was touching the one next to it. That's an hour of wasted time during peak when every minute counted and stops were already coming back due to the 60 hr DOT rule. There is a reason God put brown paint on this earth, just pull the damn car out and get to work and let the mechanic touch up the paint scratch when you get in at night!

No doubt!
I'll never forget the safety supe that had to take over a route for a driver that got sick.
He backed up against an outside dock pretty hard and broke the catwalk bumper off the truck.

I still laugh about that today (17 yrs later) because he was a very arrogant and mean-spirited person.

If management wants respect from employees they need to follow and practice the methods they enforce.

 

[Harry Manback]

Here's the thing about Integrad.

It's not universal. Not all drivers will be forced to endure it to become drivers.

My center "qualified" 18 drivers to meet a company mandate. None of them went to integrad. And of those 18, only 3 or 4 of them would have qualified under normal circumstances.

The other 14 idiots are now qualified and guaranteed a permanent FT position should their seniority win them a spot.

Integrad is but a dog and pony show the company uses to sell the world their "concern" on safety.

A sort of "Look, y'all, we strapped this guy into a 5 point safety harness and made him run up a dish soap covered ramp to deliver your Amazon pkg."!

A farce. Sober, I hope your local wins their grievance.

 

[10 point]

Actually, I would not have a problem with requiring trainees to stay at a hotel, but that isn't really the point.

The point....is that the company does not have the right to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of our employment.

If the company wishes to change the terms and conditions of employment, it needs to negotiate those changes with our union first. Requiring trainees to stay at a hotel? Fine, just put it in the contract.

This is the same reason I have always been such a pain in the ass to management regarding having to memorize the DOK. By itself its really no big deal, but when the company started declaring that it was a "requirement" and threatening discipline to people who failed to correctly regurgitate the material verbatim, I dug in my heels. If they want to make DOK knowledge a condition of my employment they can negotiate with my union and I will abide by whatever is agreed upon. Otherwise, if we let the company change the rules as they go, job security as we know it is a thing of the past.

You realize that they tried to add service, SAFETY, and methods to art 17 this last contract?
How far do you think they'd stretch those categorie's applications to cover DOK and the rest of the Magna Carter they feel is more important to us drivers than even cleaning our windows so that we can see down the road to expect the unexpected?

 

[Coldworld]

Hotel shuttle = problem solved

Anyone who's says "anyone that says integral is a total waste of time has zero idea what they are talking about" is clearly a management fan boy or blind to the fact that drivers that went to Integrad are not better equipped to start their jobs when they return to their centers than the drivers that didn't attend Integrad. They aren't. In fact....all of the drivers that intended Integrad in my center have had at least one minor accident in their first 6 months of driving and have had the same problems that each and every new driver in the history of UPS has had. When you consider that and the fact that UPS spent allot of money (much more than would have had the driver stayed home and trained at his ow center) to send those people to Integrad then it's clear that Integrad, much like ORION, is an epic waste of money. The training a driver needs can and SHOULD be done completely at their home center by an On Car sup and/or an actual driver and at a tiny fraction of the price. UPS will lie and say otherwise but the return in investment for Integrad is embarrassingly low. It has ended up being nothing more than a public relations scheme and lie to impress the stock holders. Nothing more...nothing less.

BOOM!!

 

[TBH]

For a fraction of the cost of all the INTEGRAD training, they could simply enhance the training experience at the new hires home center by excluding his/her stops from the center's daily SPORH average. This would allow the center manager and on-car to break the new hire in gradually and be more methodical in terms of teaching proper methods rather than having to scream at them to run faster from day one. Instead of forcing the center manager to worry about "how is this new guy making me look on todays report?" the question should be "how well am I doing at training this person for a safe, productive, long-term career as a UPS driver?"

Couldn't agree with you more, something like long term planning. Acronym I believe would be getting the big picture maybe. Gee, where have I heard that one before?

 

[TBH]

I don't know about other centers but my first week I had 4 to 6 hour days.

The 2nd week: 8 hour days Monday & Tuesday without pickups. Wed - Fri were 8 hour with pickups.

The 3rd week: 8 hour days with pickups.

The 4th week: Full days 8 to 11 hours on my own.

That was 23 years ago and every driver started the same way back then and they're all relatively healthy, productive drivers.

But that was a long time ago.

Not me. I had 3 days training, then was thrown to the sharks. Sink or swim. This was 27 years ago. Hung up my UPS hat for good in March. I'll still use it in the pool though!

 

[Champ_Here]

You are making a lot of assumptions and now you backtracked. At first, it was "drivers learn nothing at integrad", now it's "drivers learn the same trained in their home centers by O.C's". You already back-tracked there.

The fact is that future drivers do learn with Integrad, and yes it's actually a decent program for new drivers. That does NOT mean it is not an epic waste of money. I agree 100%, it is a waste of money.

The fact that YOUR tiny center and it's sample size of Integrad drivers impresses you, doesn't mean it reflects upon everywhere else. In our hub (where we have hundreds of drivers), I know many that went through Integrad and never had accidents and are doing just fine. And they would agree that it was a fairly useful program. And guess what, that sample size isn't large enough to begin to make assumptions as you are.



Yeah, absolutely nothing of use is learned. It's just acronyms for 40 hours.

So just wondering, coming from someone who is considered a "future driver" even though I've already gone through the same training as every other senior FT driver in my building to become a Saturday/exception air driver aND was scheduled yesteady to attend Integrad in Portland, OR. What can be taught at Integrad that I haven't already learned? I feel like at this point all I need to be a successful driver is area knowledge and just getting used to a 10 to 12 hour day. Also if I happen to fail Integrad I don't know how I won't go parcel as I have been waiting for a FT spot for a decade now and have already passed my home class (techniquely I already am a driver)

 

[hellfire]

Here's the thing about Integrad.

Integrad is but a dog and pony show the company uses to sell the world their "concern" on safety.

A sort of "Look, y'all, we strapped this guy into a 5 point safety harness and made him run up a dish soap covered ramp to deliver your Amazon pkg."!

A farce. Sober, I hope your local wins their grievance.

THIS

 

[UnconTROLLed]

So just wondering, coming from someone who is considered a "future driver" even though I've already gone through the same training as every other senior FT driver in my building to become a Saturday/exception air driver aND was scheduled yesteady to attend Integrad in Portland, OR. What can be taught at Integrad that I haven't already learned? I feel like at this point all I need to be a successful driver is area knowledge and just getting used to a 10 to 12 hour day. Also if I happen to fail Integrad I don't know how I won't go parcel as I have been waiting for a FT spot for a decade now and have already passed my home class (techniquely I already am a driver)

Yes, I was a driver too, before I went through integrad. And trust me, a little air driving doesn't make you a FT UPS driver.

Integrad is really more of a fine-tuning thing. They really hammer home the 5 and 10s, DIAD training, stop/start routine, package selection, practicing backs, how to use the mirror markers in the yard for positioning, 100% DOT pre-trip (we had to do this every day, each person, it took time)..etc. etc etc. .there was just a lot of molding and grooming going on and that type of very specific, "hands on" attention doesn't occur when you are thrown on the road with an on-car for a few days.

If anything, this type of thing would make Jim Casey proud. From what I have read, back in the day, UPS had these same types of "boot camps" to shape and manage people to become UPS'ers.

 

[iowa boy]

Yes, I was a driver too, before I went through integrad. And trust me, a little air driving doesn't make you a FT UPS driver.

Integrad is really more of a fine-tuning thing. They really hammer home the 5 and 10s, DIAD training, stop/start routine, package selection, practicing backs, how to use the mirror markers in the yard for positioning, 100% DOT pre-trip (we had to do this every day, each person, it took time)..etc. etc etc. .there was just a lot of molding and grooming going on and that type of very specific, "hands on" attention doesn't occur when you are thrown on the road with an on-car for a few days.

If anything, this type of thing would make Jim Casey proud. From what I have read, back in the day, UPS had these same types of "boot camps" to shape and manage people to become UPS'ers.

When I went thru intergrad, my partner and I spent 25 minutes a day physically driving the truck. Not delivering anything, just driving the truck. All the other time we spent was on the computer or out at the outdoor "playground". You spend time working on package selection and all that good stuff, but all the stuff but the driving goes out the window when you start driving at your home building.

The two things we all do all day are driving the truck and selecting packages. And your package selection goes out the window when you have Stevie Wonder or Helen Keller loading your car while you are training.

When I was part time I was a driver helper for 3 years so I already knew at that time how to perform 90 percent of the functions of the diad, including prerecord, multiple left ats, etc., so all the training time spent using the diad in class was a waste of time for me.

I could go on but I don't want to bore anyone anymore.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

When I went thru intergrad, my partner and I spent 25 minutes a day physically driving the truck. Not delivering anything, just driving the truck. All the other time we spent was on the computer or out at the outdoor "playground". You spend time working on package selection and all that good stuff, but all the stuff but the driving goes out the window when you start driving at your home building.

The two things we all do all day are driving the truck and selecting packages. And your package selection goes out the window when you have Stevie Wonder or Helen Keller loading your car while you are training.

When I was part time I was a driver helper for 3 years so I already knew at that time how to perform 90 percent of the functions of the diad, including prerecord, multiple left ats, etc., so all the training time spent using the diad in class was a waste of time for me.

I could go on but I don't want to bore anyone anymore.

When I went to driving school (not Integrad) I was also well versed on the DIAD so I spent that time working with others who were not as familiar.

 

[trickpony1]

.......I was also well versed on the DIAD so I spent that time working with others who were not as familiar.

Messiah Complex?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Messiah Complex?

No, Albany, but thanks for playing.

 

[Harry Manback]

When I went to driving school (not Integrad) I was also well versed on the DIAD so I spent that time working with others who were not as familiar.

How'd you become so "well versed" on the board as, on off-the-street hire?