Contract news?

[JonFrum]

Without Strong Strike Authorization, Our Union Negotiators Are Just Girly Men

There are two basic types of strikes: an Economic Strike (meaning a strike for more money), and an Unfair Labor Practice Strike (meaning a strike intended to force the employer to obey Labor Law. In a ULP strike, by law, (generally) all strikers must be given their jobs back when the strike ends. Any temporary replacement workers must be fired. This fact tends to discourage such temporary workers from applying for a job in the first place. If the strike is expected to be short, this discourages them even further. Then there is the difficulty of working for UPS in general, all the more so under such adverse circumstances. There are dozens of current issues that constitute Unfair Labor Practices, plus any new ULP violations the company commits during the negotiations and strike.

Even in a purely Economic Strike, the company might not attempt to hire replacement workers. If they do, their plan might not work. Even if it does, there may be a negotiated back-to-work agreement as part of the strike settlement. If not, when the strike ends, the strikers still get preferential rehire for open jobs and as the replacements quickly drop by the wayside, one after another. Remember, turnover at UPS is very high, even during "normal" times. It's no fun being a replacement worker during a strike, or thereafter. The climate is quite hostile! Some strikers may overtly display their dismay!

And don't confuse the Railway Labor Act, which covers the airlines and railroads, with the National Labor Relations Act, which covers private sector groups like us. Apples and oranges.

 

[sawdusttv]

IMHO...UPS does have the right to extend voluntary recognition. However, the NLRB prohibits the employer from encouraging one union over the other. By providing voluntary recognition to IBT and denying APWA, they have given preferential treatment to the Teamsters.

The rest of your statement is accurate. We will have an answer from the NLRB on what Kansas City wants in 41 days.

Considering the fact that the IBT is already the BA for UPS, I don't think that it would be preferential treatment. UPS would just be expanding there relationship with the union that they are already involved with.
Furthermore, Even if the APWA wins the election in KC, nothing says that UPS will be willing to negotiate with them. I believe that all though it would be a giant step forward for the APWA, they still need many more locations under there wing before UPS will give them a second look. I do also believe that once this major terminal comes on board with the APWA that many more will follow, it will also give them much more credibility and momentum on the brown side.

 

[GuyinBrown]

Why the shift from package to freight? From the other posts I've read, I thought that the strategy was to focus on the package side first. Did it come from the apparent lack of support?

 

[sawdusttv]

Why the shift from package to freight? From the other posts I've read, I thought that the strategy was to focus on the package side first. Did it come from the apparent lack of support?

The APWA is working on both at the same time, although the frieght side is moving faster because of the size difference, also the frieght side is non-union at this time so there are less obstacles, but they are still moving along on both sides.

 

[Cole]

Yes, that's right. I wasn't born at the time but newspapers don't lie, Cole.

LOL, Yeah they sure do. They certainly paint the picture according to their own biases. Show us the article you're referring to, and we can determine if it's a truthful article. I was just starting High school back then so I wasn't knowledgable of it. It seems like in recent yrs. some of them got backpay, or rehired. I have forgotten now.

Either way I think it's a moot point because there is no need for a strike, and imho the Teamsters would look foolish if they called one over the pension, because of the current situation w/ CS and others. I don't know how people could be convinced in mass to do so.

 

[705red]

NEWS FLASH!!! LATEST RUMORS!!!!!!!!

The latest is that the figure put on the table by UPS has increased to 8.2 billion dollars. This amount is offered to the teamsters in exchange for pulling all UPS employees out of all teamster pension plans, completely out. The carrot that UPS is waiving at the teamsters is in exchange for the teamsters accepting the offer, UPS will give the teamsters voluntary recognition at UPS frieght which will amount to around 50 million a month in dues.

Anyone else heard this one or anything close?

I heards (just a rumor) that the 8 billion could be as high as 12 billion just to get out of the cs plan. Have not heard about optioning out of all of the funds only the cs plan.

Also i dont see how it would equal 50 million a month in dues, how many freight workers are we talking about?

 

[Cole]

Good post Jon!

Exactly right about the ecomnomic strike vs ULP strike!

 

[sawdusttv]

I heards (just a rumor) that the 8 billion could be as high as 12 billion just to get out of the cs plan. Have not heard about optioning out of all of the funds only the cs plan.

Also i dont see how it would equal 50 million a month in dues, how many freight workers are we talking about?

RED,

Like I said, rumors at this point, I just posted the figures as I heard them. But they did say that the figures were to pull all UPS employees out of all teamster pension plans. The 50 million a month sounded high to me also, but that is what was said.
I'll keep my ear open and let you know when I hear more on the matter.

 

[RockyRogue]

LOL, Yeah they sure do. They certainly paint the picture according to their own biases. Show us the article you're referring to, and we can determine if it's a truthful article. I was just starting High school back then so I wasn't knowledgable of it. It seems like in recent yrs. some of them got backpay, or rehired. I have forgotten now.

Not worth the effort, Cole. It's a number of articles and information strung together, from the day Reagan went on TV and ordered the controllers back to work to "status reports" in the newspapers from August '81 and on. If I'm not mistaken, the naysayers said it would take years to get back to capacity.

"Approximately 3,000 supervisors joined 2,000 non-striking controllers and 900 military controllers in manning airport towers." (http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id296.htm)

"Two months after the strike, a congressional committee report indicated that by January 1983 only two-thirds of the controllers needed for full and safe operation of air traffic would be in place, and recommended rehiring some of the strikers who had been fired. The administration curtly refused, and Transportation Secretary Drew Lewis declined even to meet with PATCO leader Robert Poli. By 1984 air traffic had increased by 6 percent while there were still 20 percent fewer controllers than had been on the job prior to the strike." (http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id296.htm)

"President Reagan then threatened to fire all the ATC's who did not return to work within 48 hours. Only 1,650 did, and the remaining 11,350 lost their jobs. The FAA had to immediately implement their newly advised plan to offset the effects of the strike. Through the use of flow control, the remaining 10,000 workers were able to maintain over 80% of scheduled air traffic. Even with the extended workweek and overtime hours which had to put in the workforce morale was high"

The actual number, based on those above says that appoximately 5500 controllers maintained 80% of scheduled air service in the United States. Still doubt we can be replaced?

And ya know, the government trained several thousand replacements in secret. The union didn't believe Reagan would replace them. That was their biggest mistake. It became a tactical error that cost several thousand people their jobs. My history isn't 100% clear on this but my recollection is that Reagan "blacklisted" or barred all striking controllers from federal service positions. Clinton reversed that order in '93, I believe. As to being re-hired...couldn't say. -Rocky

Either way I think it's a moot point because there is no need for a strike, and imho the Teamsters would look foolish if they called one over the pension, because of the current situation w/ CS and others. I don't know how people could be convinced in mass to do so.

Oh, I agree 100% about the Teamsters looking like bumbling morons if they called a strike over the CS withdrawal. Then again, keep in mind the Teamsters are just as effective at smoke and mirrors as UPS. If there was a strike called, they'd use another reason to justify it.

And I'm through debating Teamsters until my good friend Krash gets back to me about reading The Jungle. And no offense meant but its amazing what a little history lesson will do for you, sirs. -Rocky

 

[Cole]

There again Rocky look at the numbers of ATC's vs the numbers of UPS employees, and add in the competition, as well as the economic strike, which can be replaced, whereas the ULP cannot neccesarily.

 

[JonFrum]

The Air Traffic Controllers In Effect Fired Themselves. Dumb Move.

Not only did the Air Traffic Controllers fall under the RLA, as opposed to the NLRA, as we do, but their strike was ILLEGAL!!! They also didn't work many hours, so a single supervisor could probably replace three or four of them, especially if the unnecessary flights were canceled or consolidated.

 

[RockyRogue]

I think you gentleman have entirely missed my point.

There again Rocky look at the numbers of ATC's vs the numbers of UPS employees, and add in the competition, as well as the economic strike, which can be replaced, whereas the ULP cannot neccesarily.

No disputing what you say, Cole. I've never tried to argue that it was on the same scale, either. It simply wasn't. However, that having been said, its a great example of organized labor miscalculating management's resolve. Will the Teamsters make the same tactical error???? I hope not!

Not only did the Air Traffic Controllers fall under the RLA, as opposed to the NLRA, as we do, but their strike was ILLEGAL!!! They also didn't work many hours, so a single supervisor could probably replace three or four of them, especially if the unnecessary flights were canceled or consolidated.

Jon, yes, their strike was illegal. Did that stop them from striking? Obviously not. We've seen it since, too. NYC's mass trans system was shut down and their union bosses also hauled into court. Not disputing any facts of your post, by the way. The laws governing labor differ for very good reasons. However, that doesn't make it any less annoying. A tactic that works for UPS (an economic strike) doesn't necessarily have the same applicability in another sector, such as air traffic control. IMHO, the union didn't realize this. Underestimating your adversary is a big mistake!! -Rocky

 

[Cole]

I assure you there are many avenues/tactics to take before a strike is called. That would be the absolute last resort.

 

[RockyRogue]

I assure you there are many avenues/tactics to take before a strike is called. That would be the absolute last resort.

True. I hope the "saber-rattling" that I've seen on here isn't a portent of things to come, Cole. I shudder to think what would happen if it is! I can't imagine FDX as the 'top-dog' of the package delivery industry. Talk about setbacks--reliability, etc.

And Krash, how's the book coming? Not trying to be sarcastic or anything. I was honestly moved by The Jungle when I read it. It gave me an early interest in labor and the evolution of it (not talking about APWA here). Again, a "student of history" talking. -Rocky

 

[Cole]

Rocky have you ever read "The Northwest Passage" by Kenneth Roberts? Nothing to do with labor, but imho an excellent historical book. I thought most of it was fiction, but on the histpry channel one day they were doing a documentary on Major Robert Rogers, who founded Rogers Rangers, that our Army Rangers are based on today.

If you haven't I highly rercommend it!

Later

 

[tieguy]

love those french fried taters...uh..huh...

 

[Cole]

I rekin. Got any a dem potted meats?

 

[westsideworma]

Rocky,
If you cross a picket line you are selling your brothers out. All my examples were right on the money. You have no integrity if you cross. So spare me the BS about who signs your ck. The union is the reason you get what you get from UPS.

yeah the lovely 8.50/hr....thanks for everything IBT (yes I know UPS has a hand in it as well).

 

[Bill]

The problem with your plan for uniting is you want the teamsters affected by the CSron scandel to continue to stay loyal to a plan thats forty percent funded. You might as well ask them to be kamikazes and prepare for their own suicide.

Right now you offer them the option to enjoy more of the same misery because you don't offer them the chance to fix their pensions. You don't offer them the chance to enjoy the retirement they have earned and ups has paid for.

you don't offer them the chance to negotiate with UPS for a retirement plan that has language that protects them from both UPS and the conditions that currently squeeze their well earned retirement.

You offer them a pissed away retirement on the premise that there might be a bogeyman out there. You think that somehow justifies staying on the titanic.

Well said. I have been saying this all along. The pension is beyond the point of no return. It is obvious to everyone but the few diehard Teamsters who would rather go down with the ship, than look for other options.

 

[Bill]

No rock what he did was turn his back on his fellow upsers and accepted what we stood tall for. If he did what he felt was right then he shouldnt benefit from the contractual packages that WE earned, i bet he has no problem cashing that weekly check and cashing in on all the other articles like seniority, medical, etc. It takes a big man to let others fight his battle!

Rock if you crossed you would be a scab! But if you cross and you feel its your right than stay out of union business after doing so, because your opinion is not welcome after that kind of betrayl!

Why do you keep defending the Teamsters no matter what they do? I wish I "didn't benefit" from the contractual packages the Teamsters negotiated for us during the last contract!!!!! This way, I would still have my 30 and out pension, I would not have the pension cuts or health and welfare cuts that the Teamsters forced upon us. The great Teamster negotiators have sold us out, and I expect the same for the next contract. It is time to start over, rid us of the corruption that the Teamsters represent, and begin a union that represents only UPS people honestly. What is so difficult to understand about this concept, unless you are one of those Teamster BA's or higher looking out for yourself, and worried that if another union replaces the Teamsters, the gravy train stops.