I read Atlas Shrugged, like everyone else. Eh, there are some things I like about Ayn Rand but taken as a whole she was a utopian and Objectivism is a utopian philosophy. Much like Communisn, it sounds great in theory but fails in the real world because people are imperfect. jmho.
Eat the rich! Not so fast.
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Lue C Fur
Evil member
brett636
Well-Known Member
You stated she died of lung cancer. This is factually incorrect as I have pointed out. A lot of people of that era smoked and a lot probably died of smoking related diseases. I don't see how this made Ayn Rand less relevant or her philosphy wrong.
I also have to disagree with you comparing the writings of a free market capitalist with those of a hard core socialist. Ayn Rand and Hitler had two competely different outlooks on life, but when reason was applied Ayn Rand's outlook made much more sense. Then again, I suppose a "kill the jews" mentality made little sense unless you are a liberal, anti-semite, or muslim.
TearsInRain
IE boogeyman
they both considered their philosophies beyond question, believed in a parasitic class of humans, and neither one of them came anywhere close to the ideal they professed, but i wasn't making a connection like that anyways, i was just saying her philosophy is near his level of being ludicrous
property ownership in modern society is based on the threat of force, as no consensual society of free-thinking rationalists would arrange such a richly imbalanced set of property distribution. thus, Ayn Rand and, therefore, objectivists in general hate freedom for everyone except the rich
further, Descartes demonstrated that the existence of an objective universe exterior to the mind is not objectively demonstrable, since the sensory perceptions upon which we rely as "evidence" of its existence are inherently subjective and unreliable
and that's not even getting into the psych arguments that society-wide sociopathy would end modern civilization itself, or that human beings are naturally socialist to begin with and have to learn to be capitalist, rather than the other way around
brett636
Well-Known Member
Complete and utter nonsense. You think its ludicrous to allow those would produce for our society the trappings of their own hard work? Its the very basis of individual liberty and that is property rights. Nobody is being forced to do anything except succeed or fail in whatever it is that drives them. The countries that recognize this are the countries which will see future success as a nation. To say the human condition is socialist at its heart is a failing statement. Those countries which instituted socialism in its various forms at best have become fiscal nightmares, and at worst have lead to the murder of millions of its own citizens. The truly sad part about socialism is those who profess it most strongly in government are those who only desire to accumulate more power for themselves. Not to help others. To allow the individual to persue his or her own path in life is the very basis of our own nation and its long history of success. The more we go down this road to socialism the less stable and relevant our nation becomes, and we can only pray the American public as a whole will not let that happen.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
I would be interested in the history books you are quoting. What are their names?
Secondly, federal taxation for any purpose means federal control on how that money is spent.
When you have the federal government forcibly taxing the public, then claiming that that money is returned for the welfare of the citizens, it is not at all true. When the federal government "gives" the money back to the states for say education, only a small portion of what was collected ever makes it way to the state. Then even a smaller portion makes it way from the state level to the local level where the money is available for producing the service to the taxpayer.
And not only is the amount taken away far less than what is returned, the money that is returned comes with restrictions and specific mandates that must be met to continue to "get back" money that was taken in the first place.
So no, government taxation for the trickle down benefit of the tax payer has never been economically a sound financial venture.
I do find a quote describing George Soros, one of the largest backers of the democratic party, very interesting when it comes to the extremely rich.
That from a man that had no problem taking over a billion in profits in one day, profits made on the backs of every day common working class people. Thats OK, lets make rules that affect the self interested uber rich, as long as those rules dont apply to me......
d
wkmac
Well-Known Member
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Just like Libertarianism. Sorry Wk.
No problem! You used the uppercase L and thus I not be one.
Also the "ism" would denote a philosophy or belief system and not a or any number of people.No problem! You used the uppercase L and thus I not be one.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I will concede that you are old.
Pre 1970 is hard for me to fathom. I was 30 years old before I realized that the Civil Rights movement took place just 4 years before I was born. I'm a little slow like that.
moreluck
golden ticket member
Soros waivers........
http://townhall.com/columnists/mich...mas_exclusive_george_soros_waivers/page/full/
http://townhall.com/columnists/mich...mas_exclusive_george_soros_waivers/page/full/
klein
Für Meno :)
France's rich ask to be taxed more
CBC News
Posted: Aug 23, 2011 10:20 AM ET
Some of the wealthiest people in France have taken a page from Warren Buffett's playbook and asked the French government to tax them more.
Sixteen executives from some of France's largest companies including L'Oreal, Total, Societe Generale, Air France, Danone, Areva, Peugeot and Citroen put their names to a petition, published in Paris-based magazine Le Nouvelle Observateur, calling for the government to implement a one-time "exceptional contribution" by the country's super wealthy.
CBC News
Posted: Aug 23, 2011 10:20 AM ET
Some of the wealthiest people in France have taken a page from Warren Buffett's playbook and asked the French government to tax them more.
Sixteen executives from some of France's largest companies including L'Oreal, Total, Societe Generale, Air France, Danone, Areva, Peugeot and Citroen put their names to a petition, published in Paris-based magazine Le Nouvelle Observateur, calling for the government to implement a one-time "exceptional contribution" by the country's super wealthy.
moreluck
golden ticket member
Tell the rich they can mail in their $$$$ anytime they want to. They don't have to wait til tax time. They can put up or shut up.
moreluck
golden ticket member
Millionaires & Billionaires
But as for taxes, let’s please remember who does “pay the freight” in the US these days… and it is not the lower half of the nation’s income earners, it is the very upper reaches of income earners who pay not only their “fair share” but a huge and rising portion of everyone else’s The top 1% of income earners pay roughly 40% of all federal income taxes and the top 5 percent pay approximately 70% of the federal income taxes. On the other hand, the bottom 50% of wage earners pay only 3% of the nation’s taxes and even that is somewhat distorted for the bottom 47% of American households pay no federal income tax at all. They are net takers of money from the system, while the top 53% are the net givers.
Bowing then to the data from the Tax Policy Center the numbers are as follows: The bottom 20 percent of the nation’s households pay -3.8% of the nation’s taxes, and yes, that is a negative number, for they are the beneficiaries of “earned income tax credits” that eliminate all of their tax liabilities and have money sent to them from Washington. Interestingly, the next 20% does even better for they pay -4.3%, and we can only imagine that that is because the 2nd 20% are likely better educated and know how to use the system just a bit better than the first. But at any rate, the bottom 40% of the nation’s households are net takers of money from Washington. Quite honestly, we do not perceive that to be terribly wrong for these are the poor and having the poor pay taxes is probably wrong on any front. We shall grant that and we shall move on. We do indeed have a liberal bone in our otherwise conservatively constructed body, contrary to popular belief.
The middle quintiles with an average income of $44,000 pay 3.9% of the total federal income-tax revenue and at this point we are still, effectively, “in the hole” when it comes to taxes, for remember, quintiles 1 and 2 pay negative income taxes
It is only when we reach the fourth quintile, with incomes up to $102,000, do taxes begin to add up, for this quintile pays 15.1% of the total taxes. Doing the math thus far, we are at total taxes of approximately 11%; 80% of the nation’s households pay just 11% of the total tax revenues, leaving the top 20% of the nation’s households to pay the rest! This in and of itself is amazing, and it something that President Obama shall never take the time to explain to his constituents… he should of course, but he won’t.
.
And even here, the tax receipts are skewed monstrously upward, for the up 0.1% of all income-earners pay 16.4% of all federal income taxes and that is really quite a extraordinary number for this group pays as much to the government in taxes as the bottom 80% pays collectively. It is the “millionaires and billionaires” who do indeed pay their fair share of the nation’s taxes… theirs, and the fair shares of those below them and yet it is they who are vilified by the President and his compatriots on the Left. We just thought everyone ought to know.
But as for taxes, let’s please remember who does “pay the freight” in the US these days… and it is not the lower half of the nation’s income earners, it is the very upper reaches of income earners who pay not only their “fair share” but a huge and rising portion of everyone else’s The top 1% of income earners pay roughly 40% of all federal income taxes and the top 5 percent pay approximately 70% of the federal income taxes. On the other hand, the bottom 50% of wage earners pay only 3% of the nation’s taxes and even that is somewhat distorted for the bottom 47% of American households pay no federal income tax at all. They are net takers of money from the system, while the top 53% are the net givers.
Bowing then to the data from the Tax Policy Center the numbers are as follows: The bottom 20 percent of the nation’s households pay -3.8% of the nation’s taxes, and yes, that is a negative number, for they are the beneficiaries of “earned income tax credits” that eliminate all of their tax liabilities and have money sent to them from Washington. Interestingly, the next 20% does even better for they pay -4.3%, and we can only imagine that that is because the 2nd 20% are likely better educated and know how to use the system just a bit better than the first. But at any rate, the bottom 40% of the nation’s households are net takers of money from Washington. Quite honestly, we do not perceive that to be terribly wrong for these are the poor and having the poor pay taxes is probably wrong on any front. We shall grant that and we shall move on. We do indeed have a liberal bone in our otherwise conservatively constructed body, contrary to popular belief.
The middle quintiles with an average income of $44,000 pay 3.9% of the total federal income-tax revenue and at this point we are still, effectively, “in the hole” when it comes to taxes, for remember, quintiles 1 and 2 pay negative income taxes
It is only when we reach the fourth quintile, with incomes up to $102,000, do taxes begin to add up, for this quintile pays 15.1% of the total taxes. Doing the math thus far, we are at total taxes of approximately 11%; 80% of the nation’s households pay just 11% of the total tax revenues, leaving the top 20% of the nation’s households to pay the rest! This in and of itself is amazing, and it something that President Obama shall never take the time to explain to his constituents… he should of course, but he won’t.
.
And even here, the tax receipts are skewed monstrously upward, for the up 0.1% of all income-earners pay 16.4% of all federal income taxes and that is really quite a extraordinary number for this group pays as much to the government in taxes as the bottom 80% pays collectively. It is the “millionaires and billionaires” who do indeed pay their fair share of the nation’s taxes… theirs, and the fair shares of those below them and yet it is they who are vilified by the President and his compatriots on the Left. We just thought everyone ought to know.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Paul Craig Roberts, co-founder of Reaganomics on Saving the Rich, Losing the Economy.
klein
Für Meno :)
That article pretty much summed it all up.
See what Greece did yesterday, guess the poor have nothing left to give, so they introduced an added National Property Tax.
I guess they think people with properties must have money left that can go towards paying down the Euro debt they own.
