Embassy Attacks

[Jones]

Accurate or not accurate ---word is spreading that those truly religious people sodomized the Ambassador before murdering him.

Would Allah approve ???

I would take that word with a grain of salt.

 

[island1fox]

You are saying that it doesn't matter if that is true or false?

bbsam,

1. I was responding to a poster who seems to believe that only he knows what is accurate or not.

2. I did not say it doesn't matter ---i have only stated that I do not know if the words or rumors describing the events are accurate. The only fact I know to be true --people have been murdered and that does matter.

 

[The Other Side]

What I find hilarious is the right wings attempt to isolate OBAMA as an apologist, for siding with the terrorists and slamming on the video that depicts the Prophet Mohammad in a negative light. They use terms like traitor, appeaser and weak leader.

But wait??

Where has a president done this before??? What president condemned cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammad in the past??

Oh wait, I know, but I am sure none of you KNOW. How about this statement from the BUSH administration.
[Eugene Volokh,February 3, 2006 at 6:00pm] Trackbacks
U.S. State Department on the Cartoons Depicting Mohammed:
Reuters reports:

Washington on Friday condemned caricatures in European newspapers of the Prophet Mohammad, siding with Muslims who are outraged that the publications put press freedom over respect for religion. . . .
"These cartoons are indeed offensive to the belief of Muslims," State Department spokesman Kurtis Cooper said in answer to a question. "We all fully recognize and respect freedom of the press and expression but it must be coupled with press responsibility. Inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable."
"We call for tolerance and respect for all communities for their religious beliefs and practices," he added. . . .
​

A longer version also includes this quote:

"Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images, as anti-Christian images or any other religious belief," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters.
​

A Reason Online piece links to the shorter version, and condemns it as "a craven condemnation of an affair that is none of their business."
I'm glad to say, though, that the State Department response was a good deal more assertively pro-free-speech than the Reuters account suggests. I couldn't find the Kurtis Cooper statement, but here's the relevant excerpt from the Sean McCormack press briefing:

QUESTION: Yes? Can you say anything about a U.S. response or a U.S. reaction to this uproar in Europe over the Prophet Muhammad pictures? Do you have any reaction to it? Are you concerned that the violence is going to spread and make everything just --
MR. MCCORMACK: I haven't seen any — first of all, this is matter of fact. I haven't seen it. I have seen a lot of protests. I've seen a great deal of distress expressed by Muslims across the globe. The Muslims around the world have expressed the fact that they are outraged and that they take great offense at the images that were printed in the Danish newspaper, as well as in other newspapers around the world.
Our response is to say that while we certainly don't agree with, support, or in some cases, we condemn the views that are aired in public that are published in media organizations around the world, we, at the same time, defend the right of those individuals to express their views. For us, freedom of expression is at the core of our democracy and it is something that we have shed blood and treasure around the world to defend and we will continue to do so. That said, there are other aspects to democracy, our democracy — democracies around the world — and that is to promote understanding, to promote respect for minority rights, to try to appreciate the differences that may exist among us.
We believe, for example in our country, that people from different religious backgrounds, ethnic backgrounds, national backgrounds add to our strength as a country. And it is important to recognize and appreciate those differences. And it is also important to protect the rights of individuals and the media to express a point of view concerning various subjects. So while we share the offense that Muslims have taken at these images, we at the same time vigorously defend the right of individuals to express points of view. We may — like I said, we may not agree with those points of view, we may condemn those points of view but we respect and emphasize the importance that those individuals have the right to express those points of view.
​

If that isnt good enough, BUSH HIMSELF condemned ALL CARTOONS that depicted the Prophet Mohammad in any light.

So, when you guys go on listening to RUSH, HANNITY and such, ask yourself, admid all the B.S. your listening too, why dont they mention the BUSH administrations positions?

Was BUSH appeasing the terrorists?? Was BUSH siding with terrorists? Was BUSH slamming free speech??

Amazing.

Peace

TOS

 

[The Other Side]

I believe they did the same to Gaddafi after they killed him. As I said before these people are savages, and Mark Levin had it right when he said you have to have a civil society for democracy to take hold. These crap hole countries do not have anything resembling a civil society, but they do have the perfect environment for iron fisted tyranny to flourish which is exactly what is occuring.

BRETT,

as you called all muslims animals, I am sure they would call you and Mark Levin the same for your repeated hate speech.

 

[toonertoo]

What if this is true.
Revealed: inside story of US envoy's assassination - World Politics - World - The Independent

 

[toonertoo]

And why doesnt our media uncover crap like the sodomizing, if true, and if this is true, why havent the big 3 broke it, or the cable channels, including my beloved Fox, as some think. God help us.

 

[moreluck]

What if this is true.
Revealed: inside story of US envoy's assassination - World Politics - World - The Independent

So, the administration knew ahead of time and did nothing? It was probably an Obama fundraier night !

 

[Just_another_day_at_work]

As I said, Blowback!

Just an aside, make note that Clark's speech took place in Oct. 2007' and then ponder what has happened 5 years since.

I will be mean by saying as George Carlin said "wars" in the middle-east is a ritual(literally) by the owners of this country. I don't agree on Clark that we are there until some other superpower challenge us, nor for oil. Bottom line all the house vote together on this issue, so probably they know why...

 

[Jones]

And why doesnt our media uncover crap like the sodomizing, if true, and if this is true, why havent the big 3 broke it, or the cable channels, including my beloved Fox, as some think. God help us.

From everything I've seen/read all that sodomy stuff looks to be made up, which is probably why none of the major news outlets are jumping on it.

 

[toonertoo]

From everything I've seen/read all that sodomy stuff looks to be made up, which is probably why none of the major news outlets are jumping on it.

I just got home, so I havent had time to look, but will. If that is true, what a horrible death for a man, or anyone. I hope its not. So what do foreign news agencies gain by reporting it?

 

[Jones]

I just got home, so I havent had time to look, but will. If that is true, what a horrible death for a man, or anyone. I hope its not. So what do foreign news agencies gain by reporting it?

Who knows? A lot of that stuff is written for internal consumption and there a lot of different factions still vying for control/ influence in Libya. Keep in mind that if it was true, most Libyans would be just as horrified as most Americans so it might just simply be an attempt to make the attackers look even worse than they already do.

 

[toonertoo]

So what do you think of the administration knowing of this 48 hrs ahead of time? If its not true, and I was the president I would be on TV NOW, saying what happened and when.

 

[Babagounj]

So you acted before you had any facts? The scenario above is not accurate, either.

I started this thread over a half of a day after the attacks , because I knew no one from the left would. Seeing how you don't have the guts to acknowledge the failure of the current administrations non-actions.
I guess we all now know the answer from that ad from 2008; it's 3am in the white house and who is going to answer the phone.
Certainly not bhos , he's too busy doing fund raisers to care.

 

[toonertoo]

I am not sure, but I do not think Obama has been to Israel since 2007, and he turned down a meet up with Netanyahu, for Letterman. The only mid eastern country that is our ally. But Cairo, yes, well that did a lot of good.............
he tries to run over every religion except Muslim, what exactly should I think? Im running out of time here. I have relatives in the military, and I live in the US. I do not want this guy in my country, much less running it.
so if I am wrong, tell me why. Coz I sure dont think I am. And not the bullcrap, tell me in your heart why I am wrong, I will listen,I want to be wrong. I dont want to believe that we have a idiot in office. But the way he talked about the guys who got killed, the ambassador that he appointed to Libya..........he was so dead flat, it was like lets hurry up and get to the party I dont want to deal with this crap.

 

[texan]

I am not sure, but I do not think Obama has been to Israel since 2007, and he turned down a meet up with Netanyahu, for Letterman. The only mid eastern country that is our ally. But Cairo, yes, well that did a lot of good.............
he tries to run over every religion except Muslim, what exactly should I think? Im running out of time here. I have relatives in the military, and I live in the US. I do not want this guy in my country, much less running it.
so if I am wrong, tell me why. Coz I sure dont think I am. And not the bullcrap, tell me in your heart why I am wrong, I will listen,I want to be wrong. I dont want to believe that we have a idiot in office. But the way he talked about the guys who got killed, the ambassador that he appointed to Libya..........he was so dead flat, it was like lets hurry up and get to the party I dont want to deal with this crap.

I can not tell you you wrong.

The mainstream media is behind him.

So all you will hear, and those that vote and do not have a clue of what is really going on hear,
is positive spin about him.

I pray that a sleeping giant of people who have had enough vote this Nov.

 

[The Other Side]

I can not tell you you wrong.

The mainstream media is behind him.

So all you will hear, and those that vote and do not have a clue of what is really going on hear,
is positive spin about him.

I pray that a sleeping giant of people who have had enough vote this Nov.

How do you explain the BUSH administrations positions on the european cartoons that sparked outrage? Was BUSH appeasing the enemy when he "supported" the protesters?

Please explain the hypocrisy.

Peace

TOS

 

[The Other Side]

Forgot to paste this...

As our politics are overtaken by embassy-riot finger-pointing, it's worth remembering how the Bush administration attempted to finesse the 2006 protests of Danish cartoons that mocked Muhammed. (I think everybody knows this by now, but Muslims don't illustrate Muhammad in any form. Hence the outrage.) From February 2006:

The Muslim world erupted in anger on Friday over caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad published in Europe while the Bush administration offered the protesters support, saying of the cartoons, ''We find them offensive, and we certainly understand why Muslims would find these images offensive.''​

... The State Department spokesman, Sean McCormack, reading the government's statement on the controversy, said, ''Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images,'' which are routinely published in the Arab press, ''as anti-Christian images, or any other religious belief.''​

Still, the United States defended the right of the Danish and French newspapers to publish the cartoons. ''We vigorously defend the right of individuals to express points of view,'' Mr. McCormack added.​

 

[The Other Side]

Great piece on the BUSH administration and the muslims along with APOLOGIES.

Flashback: Bush condemned Danish anti-Islam cartoons, apologized for Iraq shooting - Lean Forward

You wont hear this on FOX, RUSH, HANNITY, MARK LEVIN or any other BLOWHARD trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

peace

TOS

 

[Jones]

The following is from a marine currently on MSG duty (not in Libya), just passing it along for general interest:

Update: Got some word from a Foreign Service friend of mine. Everything is still very confused and foggy, but he was able to give me a little better context.

1) The consulate in Libya was pretty ghetto. It was a converted one-floor motel building. The only reason the consulate was located there was because that was one of the only areas the rebels had under their control back when we first established relations with them. The diplomats got on the ground, looked around, and the motel was the first suitable building they could find to set up shop.
Bottom line though is that it was NOT very defensible. Apart from a few modifications, it was still largely a civilian structure. So use your imagination to infer what that implies.
Once the old regime was toppled, and the new embassy was established in the capitol of Tripoli, it was expected that either the motel-consulate would be closed altogether, or a new building would be acquired or built, but no action had been taken yet.

2) The attack on the Benghazi consulate was not a protest-gone-wrong. It likely had nothing to do with this supposed offensive movie either. It was a direct, planned, coordinated assault. It was a firefight that lasted for hours and hours. The attackers had heavy weapons, including heavy machineguns, RPGs, bombs, and possibly mortars. People don't bring that stuff incidentally to a normal protest.
While the details are still unclear, what likely happened was that there WAS a peaceful protest by some salifists going on outside in connection with the video, but a number of attackers used the protest as cover to launch their assault. Which implies some element of manipulation by the attackers, stirring up the protest in the first place (translating the movie into arabic?).

3) The normal Libyans are horrified. Chris Stevens was well liked, well respected, and the American presence relatively popular. Literally just a couple months ago, Ambassador Stevens announced that we would begin issuing US visas to Libyans again. The Libyans are genuinely grateful for the non-intrusive support for their revolution. When the attack commenced, the local Libyan security guards who were protecting the Consulate fought hard to defend it. Many (at least 20, possibly all of them) died at their posts, defending it (remember too how ghetto the defenses were). When Ambassador Steven's vehicle was hit by an RPG, attempting to evacuate from the scene, it was normal Libyans who pulled him out, and who took him and the other casualties to other American workers located nearby, and accompanied him to the hospital. It is possible that the angry civilian presence at the scene drove the attackers off, preventing them from following up on their attack.

4) Chris Stevens is a ****ing hero. He was present as part of a planned visit to cut the ribbon for the grand opening of a new American Center building, so the fact that he would be there at that time was publicly known. When the attack commenced, the personnel inside the Consulate went to their assigned places, but then the building was set on fire by the attackers. Ambassador Stevens apparently went into the burning building to rescue his people, and ensure the all got out to safety. It is likely that his death was contributed to by smoke inhalation as a result.


Take all of the above with a grain of salt. It's fourth-hand info.
But it does paint a very interesting picture.

p.s. Confirmed there are no MSGs in EITHER Benghazi, or Tripoli. Though now the diplomats in Tripoli are BEGGING for them to be sent some. Can't speak regarding FAST team elements.

He's also said that he's about 99% sure that reports of the MSG's in Cairo not being allowed to have live ammo are BS, but emailed someone about it and he's waiting to hear back.

 

[toonertoo]

I knew rhis would be Bushs fault somehow. But keep that mind closed.