S
susiedriver
Guest
tie,
Do you have a point at all? Good thing there's not testing for management at UPS.
Do you have a point at all? Good thing there's not testing for management at UPS.
D
dannyboy
Guest
And you my dear would not know a fool if it shot you the finger while looking into the mirror.
Now are you satisfied?
There is nothing so sickening as a group of do gooders that want to help someone so bad that they have to make up all sorts of excuses to keep them, the poor victims, in their place. Kinda like the kids begging in Vietnam. Doctors would fix what was wrong with the children, be damned if the parents/guardians would undo it and make them go out and beg some more.
So I guess you would say to minorities, shut up, stay stupid, we will help. Its not that you dont know the answer, we just asked it wrong. How thoughtless of me. And if you say 1+1=3 then I guess we are wrong for asking the question the wrong way, not you because you did not know that the right answer is 2. Oh God how thoughtless.
But then they could enroll in the Susie does Washington School of Deep Thought and Links. That way they would know everything and never be wrong. A win win situation.
d
Now are you satisfied?
There is nothing so sickening as a group of do gooders that want to help someone so bad that they have to make up all sorts of excuses to keep them, the poor victims, in their place. Kinda like the kids begging in Vietnam. Doctors would fix what was wrong with the children, be damned if the parents/guardians would undo it and make them go out and beg some more.
So I guess you would say to minorities, shut up, stay stupid, we will help. Its not that you dont know the answer, we just asked it wrong. How thoughtless of me. And if you say 1+1=3 then I guess we are wrong for asking the question the wrong way, not you because you did not know that the right answer is 2. Oh God how thoughtless.
But then they could enroll in the Susie does Washington School of Deep Thought and Links. That way they would know everything and never be wrong. A win win situation.
d
S
susiedriver
Guest
Feeling frustrated, dBoy?
You never did address the questions about bias in testing. That is what this thread is about. Try to stay focused instead of thrashing about like a wounded animal.
You never did address the questions about bias in testing. That is what this thread is about. Try to stay focused instead of thrashing about like a wounded animal.
O
ok2bclever
Guest
"Clear case of needing a union to protect the workforce and even the playing field"
tie, I added the laughing icon and the winking icon for the humor impaired such as yourself, but still you don't get it, sigh.
So bush awards multi-billion dollar no bid, open ended contracts to his associate buddy corporations that have already proven that they have dishonestly and/or incompetently bilked the government and the taxpayers out of billions of dollars, while failing at most of what they were supposed to do in Iraq and are currently under federal investigation because he was in a hurry to help Katrina victims, now?!?
Sorry, don't buy it.
Haliburton.
Now there is an evil corrupt corporation for you tie.
tie, I added the laughing icon and the winking icon for the humor impaired such as yourself, but still you don't get it, sigh.
So bush awards multi-billion dollar no bid, open ended contracts to his associate buddy corporations that have already proven that they have dishonestly and/or incompetently bilked the government and the taxpayers out of billions of dollars, while failing at most of what they were supposed to do in Iraq and are currently under federal investigation because he was in a hurry to help Katrina victims, now?!?
Sorry, don't buy it.
Haliburton.
Now there is an evil corrupt corporation for you tie.
D
dannyboy
Guest
Ah susie, you make me laugh.
"when black or mixed race children are raised in white rather than black homes, their preadolescent test scores rise dramatically"
"Even nonverbal IQ scores are sensitive to environmental change"
"Black/white differences in academic achievement have also narrowed throughout the twentieth century"
"Black white reading gap has narrowed from a 1.25 in 1971 to a .69 in 1996. The math gap fell from 1.33 to .89."
Not really all that much to report. There were problems in the 60's and 70's with black kids raised by and in black neighborhoods. When placed in a white home, the differences disapeared. I wonder why?
Could it be a cultural difference that places more worth in a solid education among whites and not the black community? Could it be that other minorities are focused on other things besides education for their children? Could it be, just maybe, that the "language" that is spoken by many teens of minorities can barely if at all be understood by someone speaking english?
You have all the answers, you tell me.
How can a black child raised in a white home score the same as a white child? That would mean that they have the same ability. So what would make the difference in your mind?
d
"when black or mixed race children are raised in white rather than black homes, their preadolescent test scores rise dramatically"
"Even nonverbal IQ scores are sensitive to environmental change"
"Black/white differences in academic achievement have also narrowed throughout the twentieth century"
"Black white reading gap has narrowed from a 1.25 in 1971 to a .69 in 1996. The math gap fell from 1.33 to .89."
Not really all that much to report. There were problems in the 60's and 70's with black kids raised by and in black neighborhoods. When placed in a white home, the differences disapeared. I wonder why?
Could it be a cultural difference that places more worth in a solid education among whites and not the black community? Could it be that other minorities are focused on other things besides education for their children? Could it be, just maybe, that the "language" that is spoken by many teens of minorities can barely if at all be understood by someone speaking english?
You have all the answers, you tell me.
How can a black child raised in a white home score the same as a white child? That would mean that they have the same ability. So what would make the difference in your mind?
d
S
susiedriver
Guest
dBoy,
You have me a bit confused. You quote (without credit) Jenks and Phillips, who are the authors of The Black-White Test Score Gap. They assert that there is bias in testing, in fact they devote an entire chapter too it, yet you say there isn't any. Why don't you give their book a read? This is a very complicated issue, that can't be summed up by your usual racial prejudices.
You never did provide any questions from the test, or even the format. As usual you just provide conclusions based on your assumptions, which have no basis in reality. You say things like:
The case might have merit, but the test not being fair is a crock. That is always the first thing they go for when they really lack much substance is that the tests are not fair
You have personal knowledge of the test, and what it is testing for? You must, because you emphatically claim that it is fair. Who is 'they'? Are 'they' a racial group?
Read the book you quoted out of context and didn't bother to reference to. The authors know more about the subject than anyone here.
As I asked before:
Youve seen the test that is in question? You know for a fact that it is a true/false, multiple choice test? What is a sample question? You really believe that a school in Newark has the same resources and environment as one in rural E. Tennessee?
You have me a bit confused. You quote (without credit) Jenks and Phillips, who are the authors of The Black-White Test Score Gap. They assert that there is bias in testing, in fact they devote an entire chapter too it, yet you say there isn't any. Why don't you give their book a read? This is a very complicated issue, that can't be summed up by your usual racial prejudices.
You never did provide any questions from the test, or even the format. As usual you just provide conclusions based on your assumptions, which have no basis in reality. You say things like:
The case might have merit, but the test not being fair is a crock. That is always the first thing they go for when they really lack much substance is that the tests are not fair
You have personal knowledge of the test, and what it is testing for? You must, because you emphatically claim that it is fair. Who is 'they'? Are 'they' a racial group?
Read the book you quoted out of context and didn't bother to reference to. The authors know more about the subject than anyone here.
As I asked before:
Youve seen the test that is in question? You know for a fact that it is a true/false, multiple choice test? What is a sample question? You really believe that a school in Newark has the same resources and environment as one in rural E. Tennessee?
D
dannyboy
Guest
Like I said they could enroll in the Susie does Washington School of Deep Thought and Links. That way they would know everything and never be wrong.
"that can't be summed up by your usual racial prejudices. "
Thats good, coming from a person like yourself who is guilty of making racist comments.
"You have me a bit confused"
Yep, we know. WE see it in your posts.
d
(Message edited by dannyboy on September 30, 2005)
"that can't be summed up by your usual racial prejudices. "
Thats good, coming from a person like yourself who is guilty of making racist comments.
"You have me a bit confused"
Yep, we know. WE see it in your posts.d
(Message edited by dannyboy on September 30, 2005)
D
deliver_man
Guest
Ya know Danny, any impartial reader of this thread can see that Susie is whipping you 8 ways from Sunday. Hint: It's because she's right. You haven't adressed the issue of testing bias in any meaningful way at all, and your last post is simply an ad-hominem attack. You should quit while you're behind, and pick your fights a little better.
D
dannyboy
Guest
S
susiedriver
Guest
deliver_man,
There is intelligent life here after all.
Thanks for taking the time to read and think!
There is intelligent life here after all.
Thanks for taking the time to read and think!
T
tieguy
Guest
"tie,
Do you have a point at all? Good thing there's not testing for management at UPS."
Why suzie indeed there is testing. As a result I am qaulified to determine you are an idiot.
Do you have a point at all? Good thing there's not testing for management at UPS."
Why suzie indeed there is testing. As a result I am qaulified to determine you are an idiot.
T
tieguy
Guest
"tie, I added the laughing icon and the winking icon for the humor impaired such as yourself, but still you don't get it, sigh."
Yea I know. But at that point it was my choice to leave it as humor or use it as a lead in for the point I wished to make. I chose the latter.
"So bush awards multi-billion dollar no bid, open ended contracts to his associate buddy corporations that have already proven that they have dishonestly and/or incompetently bilked the government and the taxpayers out of billions of dollars"
Ok if this is true I'm sure your best friends Kennedy , Kerry, Fienstien and Franks will be all over it and bring Bush to justice. Did you use the Haliburton line again? Did you learn anything from the last Haliburton debate? Haliburton actually lost their government contract under Clinton. Bill then overrode the decision and reinstated Haliburtons government contract. If there is scandel to be served up with Haliburton then i would guess Bill may very well be served up to.
Yea I know. But at that point it was my choice to leave it as humor or use it as a lead in for the point I wished to make. I chose the latter.
"So bush awards multi-billion dollar no bid, open ended contracts to his associate buddy corporations that have already proven that they have dishonestly and/or incompetently bilked the government and the taxpayers out of billions of dollars"
Ok if this is true I'm sure your best friends Kennedy , Kerry, Fienstien and Franks will be all over it and bring Bush to justice. Did you use the Haliburton line again? Did you learn anything from the last Haliburton debate? Haliburton actually lost their government contract under Clinton. Bill then overrode the decision and reinstated Haliburtons government contract. If there is scandel to be served up with Haliburton then i would guess Bill may very well be served up to.
T
tieguy
Guest
"dBoy,
You have me a bit confused."
Thank god she finally confesses.
You have me a bit confused."
Thank god she finally confesses.
T
tieguy
Guest
"Ya know Danny, any impartial reader of this thread can see that Susie is whipping you 8 ways from Sunday. Hint: It's because she's right. You haven't adressed the issue of testing bias in any meaningful way at all, and your last post is simply an ad-hominem attack. You should quit while you're behind, and pick your fights a little better."
I don't know deliver it appears Suzie clearly has taken the position that thte test is biased and has tried to force Danny into proving the test is not. At the same time that Suzie tries to force Danny to prove the test she ignores other points that do not fit her societal biases.
Suzie here is the question again if racial bias is so prevelant why then are the asians and jews doing so well as a group. If there is anyone group that can truly claim a long history of bias and persecution it is the jews.
I don't know deliver it appears Suzie clearly has taken the position that thte test is biased and has tried to force Danny into proving the test is not. At the same time that Suzie tries to force Danny to prove the test she ignores other points that do not fit her societal biases.
Suzie here is the question again if racial bias is so prevelant why then are the asians and jews doing so well as a group. If there is anyone group that can truly claim a long history of bias and persecution it is the jews.
R
rushfan
Guest
Same with me, I generally like to see bad news for fedex-but not this one.
Look who will benefit from the lawsuit...the lawyer. It's the new way of making it big in the U.S. Be a class action lawyer who graduated from NYU.
(Message edited by rushfan on October 01, 2005)
Look who will benefit from the lawsuit...the lawyer. It's the new way of making it big in the U.S. Be a class action lawyer who graduated from NYU.
(Message edited by rushfan on October 01, 2005)
D
dannyboy
Guest
"a school in Newark has the same resources and environment as one in rural E. Tennessee?"
Susie
So that would mean that if I took a test and failed it, I could claim bias and racial discrimination because I didnt learn as much as the same student in Newark? But hell, I cant. Im white. So what is your point?
Education is what the individual makes of it.
It is a given that some students do better than others.
I just have real problems that every thing in this country is race related. It was not that way when I grew up. And I grew up in a 75-80% black neighborhood. There was no racial anything. And to this day it matters not a whit what the color of your skin is or the facial features that might make you different.
But yet you and others seem to want to make it a center stage item. Hard not to focus on race or related issues when so many people make a living out of keeping race front and center. Im not supposed to notice race, but yet every one else can play and promote the race card.
IF race is not supposed to matter, then why are so many people focusing so many hours on it. And why are so many people of other races becoming very successful and you never mention those. Its always that one race is this, and another race is that.
That my friend makes you a racist. Focusing on the differences and exploiting those differences makes you a racist. Trying to keep blacks and other minorities back for your own personal gain or self aggrandizement makes you a racist. Unfortunately there are too many that would position themselves out as saviors or champions of the depressed minorities, where in fact you depend on them to stay the way they are.
So since you know everything, what are the questions that minorities cant answer correctly, but yet the white majority can?
Del
So we know now what you dont beleive in and what you dont like. So tell us, what is it that you do believe in. It does not take much thought to disagree with something. But tell us, what is it you believe in?
d
Susie
So that would mean that if I took a test and failed it, I could claim bias and racial discrimination because I didnt learn as much as the same student in Newark? But hell, I cant. Im white. So what is your point?
Education is what the individual makes of it.
It is a given that some students do better than others.
I just have real problems that every thing in this country is race related. It was not that way when I grew up. And I grew up in a 75-80% black neighborhood. There was no racial anything. And to this day it matters not a whit what the color of your skin is or the facial features that might make you different.
But yet you and others seem to want to make it a center stage item. Hard not to focus on race or related issues when so many people make a living out of keeping race front and center. Im not supposed to notice race, but yet every one else can play and promote the race card.
IF race is not supposed to matter, then why are so many people focusing so many hours on it. And why are so many people of other races becoming very successful and you never mention those. Its always that one race is this, and another race is that.
That my friend makes you a racist. Focusing on the differences and exploiting those differences makes you a racist. Trying to keep blacks and other minorities back for your own personal gain or self aggrandizement makes you a racist. Unfortunately there are too many that would position themselves out as saviors or champions of the depressed minorities, where in fact you depend on them to stay the way they are.
So since you know everything, what are the questions that minorities cant answer correctly, but yet the white majority can?
Del
So we know now what you dont beleive in and what you dont like. So tell us, what is it that you do believe in. It does not take much thought to disagree with something. But tell us, what is it you believe in?
d
D
deliver_man
Guest
I disagree with you that it doesn't take much thought to disagree with something
. To disagree on the basis of reason, especially when you are in the minority, takes more thought, I believe, than just nodding your head in agreement. But I see your point. As to what I DO believe, well, I believe in a lot of things. Evolution, for instance, as opposed to creationism. If you want to label me (and I suspect you do), freethinker or secular humanist come pretty close.
D
dannyboy
Guest
Actually I dont believe in lables, but that seems to be something you and susie do beleive in.
So tell me, in your opinion what makes for a good American.
d
So tell me, in your opinion what makes for a good American.
d
O
ok2bclever
Guest
You keep confusing me with a democratic cheerleader when in reality I am against all politicians that 
with me.
Lately, that seems to be most of them although bush and co. are the worst or most efficient at it.
Sorry if you think past crimes are an excuse to accept current crimes, I don't.
I agree with lots of the old sayings like
"two wrongs don't make a right"
and
"a tie is like kissing your sister".
with me.Lately, that seems to be most of them although bush and co. are the worst or most efficient at it.
Sorry if you think past crimes are an excuse to accept current crimes, I don't.
I agree with lots of the old sayings like
"two wrongs don't make a right"
and
"a tie is like kissing your sister".
O
ok2bclever
Guest
I believe this forum should have a manditory spell checker.
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