MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Do you have a nation wide study to prove your assertion that whites are more likely to be shot in an altercation with police?
Ferguson Missouri
- Thread starter wkmac
- Start date
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Oh I see!
Hmmmm.
Hospitalization rates, injury rates and fatality rates for non-Hispanic whites are all higher per 10,000 police stops than for blacks.
White Non-Hispanics 1260 546 1.5 0.7 2.2 30.6
White Hispanic 435 187 1.5 0.6 2.1 30.1
Black 675 278 1.6 0.7 2.3 29.2
refineryworker05
Well-Known Member
One thing I like to do with contentious issues like racism and policing is to look at the stakes for the "opposing" sides. That often leads to clarity. So on one side you have Americans most of them black who think they suffer more violence and disrespect at the hands of their local police departments because they are black, and that being killed by the police is the most extreme version of this treatment, and they want their local police held accountable for killing or hurting them and they want training and monitoring of the police to curtail this behavior against them. So their stake in the issue is obvious.
refineryworker05
Well-Known Member
On the other side, as far as I can tell you have people who have no stake in how the Baltimore or Ferguson or Chicago, or New York or any city local police departments treat black people in those places.
They are not black, don't live in those places, and don't particularly care about police misconduct and violence as a political issue, but they are insistent on a few things, number one that the police aren't racist, and that any claims of racism against the police must be disputed and fought. They also stress that in fact black people don't suffer mistreatment at the hands of the police more than "They deserve". And they are insistent that people are making an opportunistic political issue out of certain incidents to rile up hatred of police and that if they really cared, they'd focus on black on black crime. The people in the opposition's stake in this issue are difficult to discern because it appears that they have zero stake in it. I believe their stake in the issue is about maintaining power and maintaining a certain kind of system of policing that targets black people whom they believe are overly criminal, violent, and need to be controlled.
Because I come back to this same question over and over and over, why do you care? When I see debates about Ferguson or Baltimore.
If you aren't black, don't live in those cities, don't care about police mistreatment of black citizens, aren't serving on the police force, aren't the elected officials of those places, why does black citizens wanting accountability from their local police departments cause any thought other than that ain't about me?
They are not black, don't live in those places, and don't particularly care about police misconduct and violence as a political issue, but they are insistent on a few things, number one that the police aren't racist, and that any claims of racism against the police must be disputed and fought. They also stress that in fact black people don't suffer mistreatment at the hands of the police more than "They deserve". And they are insistent that people are making an opportunistic political issue out of certain incidents to rile up hatred of police and that if they really cared, they'd focus on black on black crime. The people in the opposition's stake in this issue are difficult to discern because it appears that they have zero stake in it. I believe their stake in the issue is about maintaining power and maintaining a certain kind of system of policing that targets black people whom they believe are overly criminal, violent, and need to be controlled.
Because I come back to this same question over and over and over, why do you care? When I see debates about Ferguson or Baltimore.
If you aren't black, don't live in those cities, don't care about police mistreatment of black citizens, aren't serving on the police force, aren't the elected officials of those places, why does black citizens wanting accountability from their local police departments cause any thought other than that ain't about me?
refineryworker05
Well-Known Member
Take Fenris for example, Fenris is steadfast in a certain viewpoint, but what does that viewpoint have to do with anything?
Like if you are a black person, who has black relatives and black friends, who lives in places where other black people live, and you talk to those people, you have your own personal experiences with the police and you want their violence against you to be curtailed and punished, what does Fenris's viewpoint mean to you? Nothing.
What issue does Fenris's viewpoint settle for you? Nothing.
In fact, Fenris isn't even responding to your actual concerns.
Fenris is just saying that based on blah, blah stats that Fenris is ok with how police treat black people, which is great for Fenris I guess, but it has nothing to do with anything.
This is what I see in these kinds of discussions, people who have zero stake but are still very invested in opposing. It is very weird to me.
Like if you are a black person, who has black relatives and black friends, who lives in places where other black people live, and you talk to those people, you have your own personal experiences with the police and you want their violence against you to be curtailed and punished, what does Fenris's viewpoint mean to you? Nothing.
What issue does Fenris's viewpoint settle for you? Nothing.
In fact, Fenris isn't even responding to your actual concerns.
Fenris is just saying that based on blah, blah stats that Fenris is ok with how police treat black people, which is great for Fenris I guess, but it has nothing to do with anything.
This is what I see in these kinds of discussions, people who have zero stake but are still very invested in opposing. It is very weird to me.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Demographic tabulations
We tabulated data by victim age group, sex, race and Hispanic ethnicity, rurality, mechanism (eg, firearm), and, for hospital admissions, by alcohol and drug involvement of the person injured. All tables were run in SAS V.9.4., applying sample weights to the HCUP data, which are public use samples of approximately 20% of all US discharges.
Data deficits limited our analysis of race-ethnicity. NEDS cannot supply nationally representative race-ethnicity estimates because many states do not either identify race and ethnicity or collect emergency department (ED) data centrally. We therefore restricted the race-ethnicity analysis to fatal and hospital-admitted injuries.
Denominators
As denominators for producing injury ratios, we used the sum of FBI-tabulated arrest data, adjusted for non-reporting,31 and 2011 PPCS-based national estimates (which we computed using STATA V.11) of police street stops without arrest and of traffic stops where a person or vehicle was searched but the person stopped was not arrested.32 In 2012, FBI arrest data largely excluded Alabama, the District of Columbia, Hawaii, Illinois (except Chicago and Rockford) and New York City, and lacked demographic detail for Florida. Online search provided arrest data that we manually added for three of these jurisdictions: Hawaii,33Alabama34 and New York City.35 ,36 We adjusted the remaining FBI-reported data to US estimates under the assumption that arrest rates by region for the 82% of the US population covered by the FBI data and our supplements were representative of arrest rates in those regions in frequency and demographics. The FBI only began collecting Hispanic origin in 2013 arrest data, with reporting much more complete in 2014 than 2013. We supplemented the 2014 data11 with a racial breakdown for New York City.37 ,38 Our analyses classified all minority Hispanics (eg, five of the deceased) by their minority race. We assumed white Hispanics would constitute the same 28.6% of arrested whites in 2012 as in 2014. Although we used 2011 stop counts, because 2011 PPCS data were sparse for some racial groups, we distributed them using an average percentage breakdown by race that we computed from pooled 2005, 2008 and 2011 surveys.32 ,39 To test significance of ratio differences, we computed pairwise bivariate CIs between related demographic categories (eg, male vs female).
Where did I ever say I am OK with how police treat black people? I have stated multiple time we have a problem with police violence and militarization - and that it is not only directed at blacks. Your reply is part of the problem in that you are assuming motives to fit your view. We have large pluralities who look at these issues with blinders on and are so busy fighting over who is more right that we are missing the forest for the trees. We have an issue that everyone should be concerned about, that is not purely black and white but has nuance and shades of gray and many contributing factors.
refineryworker05
Well-Known Member
Part of the problem.... Lol
The bottom line is black people saying police mistreat them doesn't need a rebuttal or a fact check about how other people get treated. I can tell you with absolute certainty that black people do not get treated the same as other Americans by the police and that there is a long history separate from militarization of the police. It is a specific thing aimed dead at black people. You coming along and saying well actually means nothing and is bs.
As always...... black people gotta "prove" their own personal experiences to people who don't give a damn about them. Oh you blacks don't have it so bad, blah, blah, blah. Man gtfo with that bs.
refineryworker05
Well-Known Member
The stats about how black people get treated differently by the police and the overall criminal justice system around the nation separate from all other Americans are legion and long standing going back many many many decades. Those stats aren't hard to find, anyone and I mean anyone pretending that all Americans are in the same boat when it comes to police mistreatment and violence as black Americans is a liar. It's just that simple. Whatever their intentions.
There is a long tradition in America of infantilizing black people. Black peoples' words about their experiences are never respected, There is the requirement that they prove it. At the height of Jim Crow, black people had to go to court to "prove" that America was racist. Think about that...
This is a very common thing, what is obvious to black people and objective reality becomes a source of dispute for others who think they are the arbiters.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Apparently it was hard for the cop who murdered the guy.Hope they all die. Retards. Protesting over nothing. It's not hard to act like aing human being.
refineryworker05
Well-Known Member
That response is what I meant about looking at the stakes of the opposing sides. One side is protesting police violence directly related to saving lives, lessening injuries, and mistreatment at the hands of the police and the other side is upset with the protests even though the protests have nothing to do with them at all.
What else is one supposed to think, but damn what a racist mfer silverbullet2893 must be. I mean seriously what does black Ferguson citizens protesting their local police department in Ferguson have to do with silverbullet2893 that silverbullet2893 hopes they all die, and calls them retards? That reaction is fundamentally about maintaining power over black people using the police, why else would silverbullet2893 care?
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Silverbullet is good people in my book. Don't overt think it man, it's Friday, cheap beer usually makes for cheap conversation. My offer to buy him a quality IPA still stands.
refineryworker05
Well-Known Member
The fact that silverbullet is good people to you doesn't change that silverbullet sounds like a racist mfer. I think people believe that being a racist means the person is an unlovable/unlikable inhuman monster. When in fact, people are complex. I can't just ignore silverbullet wishing that people would get hurt for protesting police violence. Ask yourself why does silverbullet care that much? Is silverbulllet black? Does silverbullet live in Ferguson? Is silverbullet a cop working in Ferguson? Is silverbullet an elected official from the city of Ferguson? If silverbullet is none of those things, then what is driving that level of anger for an issue that silverbullet has zero stake in but the people protesting do have direct stake in?
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Future
Victory Ride
Stealing toilet paper ...from BK ....is not considered looting!
1989
Well-Known Member
I think he was joking about St. Louis. Appears to be his hometown. I'm not a fan of protesters, they sometimes block streets, vandalize property, and turn violent. So I'm usually a non supporter myself. That's how they affect me.
