FULL TIMERS still in PROGRESSION with seniority date by Aug 1st! Did you file your grievance!?!

[zubenelgenubi]

My two cents, take it or leave it as you will:

Anyone who is in progression who has gotten the GWI on top of their progression increase should probably stash the extra money for a while to make sure this is all on the up and up. My concern is that someone in payroll jumped the gun on this. I highly doubt UPS would roll over so quickly on this matter, especially since doing so would open them up to all manner of back pay claims.

Why would the union and company tell all of us for all these years that people in progression don't get the GWI on top of progression increases, then suddenly change their tune with this contract? Especially considering that the only changes to the language actually support that the gwi is not in addition to progression bumps.

Something about this stinks to me. If they are going to start paying gwi on top of progression, they better pay everyone who ever went without it, especially since progression jumped so much this contract.

 

[Brownsocks]

They can say it but they better be able to prove it! There is no language in the contract to support those claims there is no language change from Pryor contracts where they said we did not get the gwi, and they verbally said that we did not receive agwi wife still in progression right up until the time we grieved it. Now after we successfully grieve the contract they say oh yeah it was in there all the time when you guys talkin about you already got your $0.70, oh, wait what? The biggest obstacle that these guys have is that they have never given the gwi to anyone in progression in the prior contracts and the language from those contracts have it changed. They can't prove that what they're saying is true, they can argue what they're saying is true about us getting the $0.70 but the crew from prior contracts prior language and prior payouts say otherwise, it's just a bunch of baloney!!!

Teamsters q&a on this contract. I assume same for drivers in progression. This is from last year.
Q. I recently went from part time to full time within the last three years and am going through the progression. My question is: what is the progression increase for inside full- time employees that are not drivers?
A. You will be eligible for the General Wage Increases (GWI) in Article 41 and will make no less than the new progression rates, which have been raised $1.00 for each level for Full-Time Inside. The top rate will be increased each year in accordance with the GWI as well.

 

[Underallowed306]

Why would the union and company tell all of us for all these years that people in progression don't get the GWI on top of progression increases,

I’m not taking issue with your saying, but I’m gonna point out that no one is looking for the GWI in addition to the progression, but rather that the GWI is received on August 1 as it states in the current ratified contract. That may not be what they meant to say, but like it or not, that IS what it says. You would then receive the appropriate bump (but not more than) up to your next progression rate on your hire date.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

I’m not taking issue with your saying, but I’m gonna point out that no one is looking for the GWI in addition to the progression, but rather that the GWI is received on August 1 as it states in the current ratified contract. That may not be what they meant to say, but like it or not, that IS what it says. You would then receive the appropriate bump (but not more than) up to your next progression rate on your hire date.

The OP has been very clear that he believes it is supposed to be GWI in addition to progression raises.

I already broke down the language in a previous post. The current contract does not state a specific date for the increase, nor does it even say the begining of the contract year. My issue isn't with it being interpreted that way, it's that the interpretation has changed suddenly, while the changes in the language do not support that particular change in the interpretation.

Even if it were applied that they get the gwi on August 1st, and then bump up to the next progression rate on their seniority date, there is no way that would ever fly because it would apply to everyone unevenly. Some people would only enjoy the increase for as little as a couple days, some may enjoy it for almost a year. It also doesn't work that it is in addition to the progression rates, because those rates are spelled out specifically in the contract. One way or another, if people in progression get the gwi the way the OP believes, UPS opens themselves up for a big world of hurt.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

My two cents, take it or leave it as you will:

Anyone who is in progression who has gotten the GWI on top of their progression increase should probably stash the extra money for a while to make sure this is all on the up and up. My concern is that someone in payroll jumped the gun on this. I highly doubt UPS would roll over so quickly on this matter, especially since doing so would open them up to all manner of back pay claims.

Why would the union and company tell all of us for all these years that people in progression don't get the GWI on top of progression increases, then suddenly change their tune with this contract? Especially considering that the only changes to the language actually support that the gwi is not in addition to progression bumps.

Something about this stinks to me. If they are going to start paying gwi on top of progression, they better pay everyone who ever went without it, especially since progression jumped so much this contract.

Saving money is always a good idea! Did you read my grievance? My grievance is clad iron and undisputable. Over a year of researching studying and asking questions about that little brown Union book they give us went into my grievance so UPS had a heads-up or should have had a heads up that this was coming, so this is not picture me reaction at all. Your question though is the million-dollar question and I don't want to sound too truculent but he had an epidermal is steering UPS dead in the face, the only two options they have aren't you pay now or pay later, later probably gets into a big ugly legal battle and then you pay or try to do the right thing now and still pay without all the Press controversy and everything that goes along with at the very least a misinterpretation of the master contract! Plain and simple the GWI we all got in our paychecks is here to stay!!!

 

[BigJamesBrown]

Teamsters q&a on this contract. I assume same for drivers in progression. This is from last year.
Q. I recently went from part time to full time within the last three years and am going through the progression. My question is: what is the progression increase for inside full- time employees that are not drivers?
A. You will be eligible for the General Wage Increases (GWI) in Article 41 and will make no less than the new progression rates, which have been raised $1.00 for each level for Full-Time Inside. The top rate will be increased each year in accordance with the GWI as well.

There you have it!

 

[BigJamesBrown]

The OP has been very clear that he believes it is supposed to be GWI in addition to progression raises.

I already broke down the language in a previous post. The current contract does not state a specific date for the increase, nor does it even say the begining of the contract year. My issue isn't with it being interpreted that way, it's that the interpretation has changed suddenly, while the changes in the language do not support that particular change in the interpretation.

Even if it were applied that they get the gwi on August 1st, and then bump up to the next progression rate on their seniority date, there is no way that would ever fly because it would apply to everyone unevenly. Some people would only enjoy the increase for as little as a couple days, some may enjoy it for almost a year. It also doesn't work that it is in addition to the progression rates, because those rates are spelled out specifically in the contract. One way or another, if people in progression get the gwi the way the OP believes, UPS opens themselves up for a big world of hurt.

Thanks for doing some research, we need as many eyes on this situation is humanly possible, but in the end the thing that matters most is there is no logical explanation from UPS or the Teamsters Union for what has happened other than them admitting that they misinterpreted the contract all these years. Believe me, the Grievances that came out of my hub indisputable based on the language of the contract alone.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

Here's the starting rate you're supposed to get if you're in progression with a seniority date AFTER August 1st 2018!!! $21hr
My question is who got the starting rate of $21hr in the first year of the contract? If you did not get $21.70, AND you had a seniority date BEFORE August 1st 2018, you are not getting recognized and compensated for your service and seniority before August 1st 2018!
LET'S TALK ABOUT IT!!!

 

[Underallowed306]

One way or another, if people in progression get the gwi the way the OP believes, UPS opens themselves up for a big world of hurt.

Just curious. How so?

 

[BigJamesBrown]

Just curious. How so?

Article 54 wage and hours, wages schedule subsection 2b

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Just curious. How so?

I already explained this, but I'll reiterate and expand. UPS is opening themselves up to the back pay claims going as far back as the law will allow. Both UPS and the Teamsters are vulnerable to a class action lawsuit brought on behalf of everyone who ever went through progression before this point and did not get GWI. You thought it took them forever to calculate back pay for this last contract, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Article 54 wage and hours, wages schedule subsection 2b

There is no article 54 in the master, so this is either a regional issue, or you just tipped your hand on your hoax.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

I already explained this, but I'll reiterate and expand. UPS is opening themselves up to the back pay claims going as far back as the law will allow. Both UPS and the Teamsters are vulnerable to a class action lawsuit brought on behalf of everyone who ever went through progression before this point and did not get GWI. You thought it took them forever to calculate back pay for this last contract, you ain't seen nothing yet.



There is no article 54 in the master, so this is either a regional issue, or you just tipped your hand on your hoax.

No hoax friend! I never said this section was in the master because it's not. This section is in the supplement. If you think this is a hoax call local 384 and verify it for yourself!

 

[Bubblehead]

No hoax friend! I never said this section was in the master because it's not. This section is in the supplement. If you think this is a hoax call local 384 and verify it for yourself!

It's contained in Article 41 of the National Master.

....which is nothing new.

What is new to my knowledge, is that package car drivers in my building, who were in progression prior to August 1, 2018, did indeed receive the $.75 raise this month.

That in turn does beg their question, "why didn't I get the $.70 in retro pay, as well as hourly pay since implementation in late April"?

 

[BigJamesBrown]

It's contained in Article 41 of the National Master.

View attachment 259111

....which is nothing new.

What is new to my knowledge, is that package car drivers in my building, who were in progression prior to August 1, 2018, did indeed receive the $.75 raise this month.

That in turn does beg their question, "why didn't I get the $.70 in retro pay, as well as hourly pay since implementation in late April"?

Eureka! But once UPS admits that they owe the $0.70 then they have to issue retro checks. Who knows how far these retro checks for Overlook money will go back.! The Retro checks to be issued could go all the way back to 2002,! From what I understand that's when this particular language was put into the contract that we now have today. Millions upon Millions of unpaid paid dollars for the hours worked Would be my guess!!!

 

[Bubblehead]

@BigJamesBrown .....what I think you may be overlooking is that these raises (GWI) are short lived for those in progression and are for all intensive purposes "absorbed" by the next progression raise that follows.

These raises aren't pyramided on top of the next plateau rate.

So for example, if you are at $23/hr and in your second year come August 1st, but your full time seniority date is October 1st.
In this instance you would only get the 75 cents for 2 months until you are bumped up again to $24/hr on your seniority date....not $24.75.

I think some money may have slipped through the cracks here, but not as much as you think.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

@BigJamesBrown .....what I think you may be overlooking is that these raises (GWI) are short lived for those in progression and are for all intensive purposes "absorbed" by the next progression raise that follows.

These raises aren't pyramided on top of the next plateau rate.

So for example, if you are at $23/hr and in your second year come August 1st, but your full time seniority date is October 1st.
In this instance you would only get the 75 cents for 2 months until you are bumped up again to $24/hr on your seniority date....not $24.75.

I think some money may have slipped through the cracks here, but not as much as you think.

For all general purposes there are three types of full-time employees. One of those full-time employee is at top rate. The first full-time employee is a seniority driver at top rate. The the 2nd full time employee is a full-time employee in progression with a seniority date before August first 2018, and the third full-time employee as a full-time employee with a seniority date after August 1st 2018. There's no guessing involved with this. The contract specifically States how each employee will be compensated for their hours worked. One employee will be paid at top rate with a GWI each year as stated in the contract. Another employee. Another employee will be paid progression rate and GWI. And the third and final employee wolf only be paid the progression rate. How do I know this, Because the contract spells it out in black and white! Nowhere in the contract is there a modified GWI for Annie full-time employee with a seniority date before August 1st 2018. When you start a sentence with a capital all of your thoughts have to come before the sentence ends .

 

[Bubblehead]

For all general purposes there are three types of full-time employees. One of those full-time employee is at top rate. The first full-time employee is a seniority driver at top rate. The the 2nd full time employee is a full-time employee in progression with a seniority date before August first 2018, and the third full-time employee as a full-time employee with a seniority date after August 1st 2018. There's no guessing involved with this. The contract specifically States how each employee will be compensated for their hours worked. One employee will be paid at top rate with a GWI each year as stated in the contract. Another employee. Another employee will be paid progression rate and GWI. And the third and final employee wolf only be paid the progression rate. How do I know this, Because the contract spells it out in black and white! Nowhere in the contract is there a modified GWI for Annie full-time employee with a seniority date before August 1st 2018. When you start a sentence with a capital all of your thoughts have to come before the sentence ends .

What makes this contract cycle different, seeing that this language isn't new?

I'm not challenging you, or trying to be combative, rather asking questions, making statements, and listening to all answers....and I'm talking to a lot of people about this.

This is an onion of many layers.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

What makes this contract cycle different, seeing that this language isn't new?

I'm not challenging you, or trying to be combative, rather asking questions, making statements, and listening to all answers....and I'm talking to a lot of people about this.

This is an onion of many layers.

I don't want to toot my own horn but the Grievous me and my brother put together explain everything in detail if you read my previous you will see that it leads UPS or the Teamster's Union no wiggle room and what the contract says. This is the first time they've ever had a grievance stand up to the scrutiny of all criticisms! And the past most people challenging the language of the contract after getting two or three news just quietly went away Into the Night oh, that didn't happen this time plus we broke the language down word for word!!! On a side note all of these races will be cumulative they will all be tallied towards the end of your progress in here, and other words each year you get a DWI will be stacked on top of the last one tallied total amount of $4.15. I'm also hearing from the Grapevine got the $0.70 is on its way, we should have our Dollar $0.45 by the end of the year if all goes well plus retro check!!!

 

[Bubblehead]

I don't want to toot my own horn but the Grievous me and my brother put together explain everything in detail if you read my previous you will see that it leads UPS or the Teamster's Union no wiggle room and what the contract says. This is the first time they've ever had a grievance stand up to the scrutiny of all criticisms! And the past most people challenging the language of the contract after getting two or three news just quietly went away Into the Night oh, that didn't happen this time plus we broke the language down word for word!!! On a side note all of these races will be cumulative they will all be tallied towards the end of your progress in here, and other words each year you get a DWI will be stacked on top of the last one tallied total amount of $4.15. I'm also hearing from the Grapevine got the $0.70 is on its way, we should have our Dollar $0.45 by the end of the year if all goes well plus retro check!!!

I'll ask again, what's different this time....or are you "tooting your own horn" in asserting that the "Grievous you and brother put together" was the only difference?

I will admit that I haven't followed this thread from post to post (218), but I did see that you referenced Article 54 instead of 41 of the National, which has me wondering if you have supplemental language that bolsters this ground shaking grievance?

Again, I'm trying to gather information for those in my Local who may benefit from it.

 

[Bubblehead]

@BigJamesBrown , had a guy call me this weekend with a seniority date of August 8th of 2018.

Does he have no claim to any gross wage increases for the duration of this contract, while someone with a seniority date of July 31st, 2018 will?