FULL TIMERS still in PROGRESSION with seniority date by Aug 1st! Did you file your grievance!?!

[upschuck]

If what you're saying is true why hasn't any of that happened in the past contracts?

Same reason your way hasn't, nobody filed on it. I tried to tell people last contract, but the affected either didn't see, or didn't care.

 

[upschuck]

It's not set in the language, so it is determined by a combination of factors. As long as a full timer covered by the article gets an increase equal to or greater than the gwi during the contract year, the language is satisfied. The ones in progression at the time of the new contract get the increase as of August 1st of the first year of the contract, then another at their seniority date. That puts them ahead of the game, and nothing says they have to get another increase the next August 1st.

I disagree.


Section 3. Revisions agreed upon or ordered shall be effective as of August 1, 2018 unless otherwise specifically provided. The Employer or the National Negotiating Committee shall be permitted all legal or economic recourse to support their requests for revisions if the parties fail to agree therein.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

Case study

Seniority date : May 1, 2018

May 1,2018 18.75
Aug 1, 2018 21.00 --- 18.75 + .70(gwi) = 19.45, but it can't be less than 21
May 1, 2019 23.00 -- progression raise
Aug 1, 2019 23.75 -- gwi raise
May 1, 2020 24.00 -- progression raise, can't be below $24
Aug 1, 2020 24.80 -- gwi raise
May 1, 2021 28.75 -- progression raise, can't be below $28.75
Aug 1, 2021 29.65 -- gwi raise
May 1, 2022 Top rate -- progression raise
Aug 1, 2022+ Top rate + gwi -- gwi raise.

This is exactly what the language states.

Numbers are going to be skewed because $18.75 what's the old contract which had nothing to do with the new contract.$21 an hour is the starting rate for everyone, not just the full-time employees with a seniority date prior to August 1st 2018 so it holds no significance as far as the gwi goes because every new start receives that amount.

Unless and until you add the $0.70 gwi plus the $21 starting rate you cannot move forward and have a logical answer as an outcome based on the information provided for the reader in the new contract.

 

[upschuck]

Numbers are going to be skewed because $18.75 what's the old contract which had nothing to do with the new contract.$21 an hour is the starting rate for everyone, not just the full-time employees with a seniority date prior to August 1st 2018 so it holds no significance as far as the gwi goes because every new start receives that amount.

Unless and until you add the $0.70 gwi plus the $21 starting rate you cannot move forward and have a logical answer as an outcome based on the information provided for the reader in the new contract.

Numbers are not skewed, because that is what they made at the time. My logic holds.

I can see why you say 21.70, but that is ambiguous at best. That still does not change any other numbers in the scenario I gave you. I guess that would be the same concept as if you'd have an Aug 1st seniority date.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

Ok, let's use the example of David A Oopser.

Dave attained seniority May 2018. He was making $18.75, then, come August 1st he makes $21.00 because of the language saying he gets the increases, but not less than what he is entitled to per section 2.

The language says the gwi is per contract year, and does not give a date the gwi is to be paid. UPS has to give everyone the increases in the contract as of August 1st 2018 per the agreement with the union, hence the retro checks.

Now, May 2019 swings around, Dave gets bumped up to his new progression rate of $23 per hour. He has now had two increases in the same contract year, which more than satisfies the gwi requirement for year one of the contract. August 1st 2019 rolls around, he gets gwi again, right? According to what? There is no date for the gwi in the contract. As long as his progression bump the following May satisfies the gwi amount and is no less than what he is owed according to the progression schedule, he has gotten what he is entitled to for contract year 2. And so on until he tops out.

Everyone else gets the gwi August 1st because they are already topped out, and that was the date of the original gwi for the new contract. Two contracts back they split the gwi and had dates for each raise, that was the last time the language supports the idea of gwi as well as progression. The dates were taken out last contract, and gwi continued to be paid out August 1st establishing precedent for that date. What there is no precedent for is gwi as well as progression, and the language certainly does not support gwi on top of progression.

The language states:
"Section 1. Full-time Wage Increases All full-time employees who have attained seniority as of August 1, 2018 will receive the following general wage increases for each contract year."

It does not say the increases must be paid out August 1st, just for each contract year.

Ok, let's use the example of David A Oopser.

Dave attained seniority May 2018. He was making $18.75, then, come August 1st he makes $21.00 because of the language saying he gets the increases, but not less than what he is entitled to per section 2.

The language says the gwi is per contract year, and does not give a date the gwi is to be paid. UPS has to give everyone the increases in the contract as of August 1st 2018 per the agreement with the union, hence the retro checks.

Now, May 2019 swings around, Dave gets bumped up to his new progression rate of $23 per hour. He has now had two increases in the same contract year, which more than satisfies the gwi requirement for year one of the contract. August 1st 2019 rolls around, he gets gwi again, right? According to what? There is no date for the gwi in the contract. As long as his progression bump the following May satisfies the gwi amount and is no less than what he is owed according to the progression schedule, he has gotten what he is entitled to for contract year 2. And so on until he tops out.

Everyone else gets the gwi August 1st because they are already topped out, and that was the date of the original gwi for the new contract. Two contracts back they split the gwi and had dates for each raise, that was the last time the language supports the idea of gwi as well as progression. The dates were taken out last contract, and gwi continued to be paid out August 1st establishing precedent for that date. What there is no precedent for is gwi as well as progression, and the language certainly does not support gwi on top of progression.

The language states:
"Section 1. Full-time Wage Increases All full-time employees who have attained seniority as of August 1, 2018 will receive the following general wage increases for each contract year."

It does not say the increases must be paid out August 1st, just for each contract year.

Okay you already lost me and the first sentence! First of all $18.75 is the starting rate from the old contract which has nothing to do with the start of your rate of the new contract. The old contract has been or is going to be for filled when the new contract comes in August 1st so let's not talk about the $18.75 again please!

New contract started August 1st 2018 with a new hire rate of $21 an hour. You can't tell me that all new hires come in at $21 an hour, and the guys that have a seniority date prior to August first 2018 received the same hourly rate and then go ahead and try to convince me that the guys with a seniority date prior to August 1st 2018 have received a general wage increase while still making the same $21 as a guy walking through the door with no seniority at all!!!!!

The Retro checks is not for the jump in starting rate rates between the old contract and the new, the Retro check is a direct result of UPS dragging their feet and delayed Union negotiations all while still l paying full-time employees the old starting rate of $18.75 after August 1st 2018.

The new contract ushered in a new starting rate of $21.

I'm not leaving the other retro check scenarios out I'm just trying to keep this as simple as I can. I do understand that other retro checks were issued for other full-time employees in the progression Spectrum who's pay rate also did not change because of the delays. Also let's not forget about the guys that were at top rate that were waiting for their gwi as of August 1st but did not receive their retro check until months later.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

So question bout the 70 cents. So my BA said the 70 cents were included in my progression. My progression is in February in which I moved to 23 based off of old contract. The gwi was from 8/1/2018 so where is the 70 cents? I moved to 24 month progression in February and know make 24.75. For my 70cents to be included in my 24 month progression would mean that I would receive my gwi later than August 1? That alone is a grievance or not? Because I'm going from August 1 2018 to February without the 70cents which is when I get my progressions?

Now you're asking the right questions!!!!!

 

[542thruNthru]

New contract started August 1st 2018 with a new hire rate of $21 an hour. You can't tell me that all new hires come in at $21 an hour, and the guys that have a seniority date prior to August first 2018 received the same hourly rate and then go ahead and try to convince me that the guys with a seniority date prior to August 1st 2018 have received a general wage increase while still making the same $21 as a guy walking through the door with no seniority at all!!!!!

You might want to ask a PT worker how that works.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

You might want to ask a PT worker how that works.

You might want to ask a PT worker how that works.

That's why he asked you

 

[BigJamesBrown]

See below

Nonsense! Why do you keep using numbers from the old contract when it has nothing to do with the new contract!?!

 

[BigJamesBrown]

It's not set in the language, so it is determined by a combination of factors. As long as a full timer covered by the article gets an increase equal to or greater than the gwi during the contract year, the language is satisfied. The ones in progression at the time of the new contract get the increase as of August 1st of the first year of the contract, then another at their seniority date. That puts them ahead of the game, and nothing says they have to get another increase the next August 1st.

Preposterous!!! What you are directly goes against THE THEORY of RELATIVITY because you can't have one thing occupying two different spaces in time!!!

The raise in pay can't be the starting wage increase, the progression wage increase, and the gwi increase all at the same time, but at different times of the contract in the same contract year!

IMPOSSIBLE!!!

 

[BigJamesBrown]

I disagree.


Section 3. Revisions agreed upon or ordered shall be effective as of August 1, 2018 unless otherwise specifically provided. The Employer or the National Negotiating Committee shall be permitted all legal or economic recourse to support their requests for revisions if the parties fail to agree therein.

Music to my ears!

 

[upschuck]

Nonsense! Why do you keep using numbers from the old contract when it has nothing to do with the new contract!?!

Because I was showing how I got to those numbers, from the previous numbers.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

Numbers are not skewed, because that is what they made at the time. My logic holds.

I can see why you say 21.70, but that is ambiguous at best. That still does not change any other numbers in the scenario I gave you. I guess that would be the same concept as if you'd have an Aug 1st seniority date.

No it would not! The contract specifically says "prior to August 1st", prior to August 1st is the only way this contract can work that's why with A SENIORITY DATE PRIOR to AUGUST 1st 2018 IS IN THERE BECAUSE THE CONTRACT DOES NOT WORK or MAKE SENSE WITHOUT THAT LANGUAGE!!!

 

[upschuck]

No it would not the contract specifically says "prior to August 1st", prior to August 1st is the only way this contract can work that's why with A SENIORITY DATE PRIOR to AUGUST 1st 2018 IS IN THERE BECAUSE THE CONTRACT DOES NOT WORK or MAKE SENSE WITHOUT THAT LANGUAGE!!!

How bout Aug 1 of 2017?

 

[BigJamesBrown]

Because I was showing how I got to those numbers, from the previous numbers.

Yeah but you can't use the starting rate from the old contract to get to the high-water mark and a new and separate set apart contract.

You have to start your numbers with the new starting rate of $21 from the new contract before you can come to a correct answer.

 

[upschuck]

Yeah but you can't use the starting rate from the old contract to get to the high-water mark and a new and separate set apart contract.

You have to start your numbers with the new starting rate of $21 from the new contract before you can come to a correct answer.

It says they cannot be paid less than that, therefore, they get that bump in pay. They don't start at that.

 

[BigJamesBrown]

How bout Aug 1 of 2017?

What about it? That was the beginning date of the last year of the old contract, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the new contract.

The terms of the new contract started August 1st 2018, anything Pryor to that date is still under the old contract. The two contracts do not mesh, combine, and/or consolidate at any time.

 

[Turdferguson]

I disagree.


Section 3. Revisions agreed upon or ordered shall be effective as of August 1, 2018 unless otherwise specifically provided. The Employer or the National Negotiating Committee shall be permitted all legal or economic recourse to support their requests for revisions if the parties fail to agree therein.

Shockingly you are wrong. There is nothing in the contract that says we get a raise each Aug 1st as full timers. Part timers yes, but no date is specified for full timers to get a raise

 

[BigJamesBrown]

It says they cannot be paid less than that, therefore, they get that bump in pay. They don't start at that.

Cannot be paid less than that because the $21 an hour becomes the new starting rate! It doesn't have anything to do with progression or gwi, again the $21 is simply the new starting rate of a new contract...

 

[upschuck]

What about it? That was the beginning date of the last year of the old contract, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the new contract.

The terms of the new contract started August 1st 2018, anything Pryor to that date is still under the old contract. The two contracts do not mesh, combine, and/or consolidate at any time.

You have a one tract mind. Hard follow a slight veer off topic.