Game. Set. Match.

[UrFellowUpser]

Most full scale drivers (after 4 years) make $100k a year and somewhere between $16,000-19,000 contributed to their pension, and an additional $1,300-1,700 a month on dental vision and health care they don’t pay for.

No where does anyone make close to that delivering a package or without having a college degree

The next close or best is mileage CDL trucking but that takes a license that is not very easily obtained for some people that don’t have buy in power. Then they have extraordinary expenses buying I individual health care and 401k savings.

Ups is the gold ticket to a pretty good life style

(If this contract passes you’ll make a couple more dollars more an hour instantly and a fat retro check from August 1)

Well i see that im not going anywhere no time soon in the forseeable future.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Most full scale drivers (after 4 years) make $100k a year and somewhere between $16,000-19,000 contributed to their pension, and an additional $1,300-1,700 a month on dental vision and health care they don’t pay for.

No where does anyone make close to that delivering a package or without having a college degree

The next close or best is mileage CDL trucking but that takes a license that is not very easily obtained for some people that don’t have buy in power. Then they have extraordinary expenses buying I individual health care and 401k savings.

Ups is the gold ticket to a pretty good life style

(If this contract passes you’ll make a couple more dollars more an hour instantly and a fat retro check from August 1)

We don't pay premiums, but premium costs have nothing to do with us. We still have out of pocket expenses we must pay before ever seeing any benefit from health insurance. And if you adjust your little chart for inflation, you will see the difference in pay between now and the end of the contract is, what? Zero? Actually, based on the graph, drivers will make less in 2023 than they do now, assuming 2.5% inflation. But let's not focus on reality, let's just spin it to make it sound like a great deal.

 

[Tony Q]

Okay @Tony Q enough is enough

Can’t wait for the strike. People will be crying the blues on this site.

 

[silverbullet2893]

Can’t wait for the strike. People will be crying the blues on this site.

There will be no strike. You know it

 

[Neanderthal]

We don't pay premiums, but premium costs have nothing to do with us. We still have out of pocket expenses we must pay before ever seeing any benefit from health insurance. And if you adjust your little chart for inflation, you will see the difference in pay between now and the end of the contract is, what? Zero? Actually, based on the graph, drivers will make less in 2023 than they do now, assuming 2.5% inflation. But let's not focus on reality, let's just spin it to make it sound like a great deal.

Your rationale is fine if we are only bargaining a wage product. However we are not.

There is wage ($4.15) and pension/health/welfare ($5.00)

That is a fairly significant increase of ($9.15) over the life of this agreement.

 

[SameRightsForAll]

 

[brown_trousers]

How much is the company paying you to be their "poster boy and lap dog"?

Probably about $37 an hour. Same as the rest of us drivers

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Your rationale is fine if we are only bargaining a wage product. However we are not.

There is wage ($4.15) and pension/health/welfare ($5.00)

That is a fairly significant increase of ($9.15) over the life of this agreement.

Adjusted for inflation it's not that much. 73 per hour in 2023 is 65 in 2018. 9.15 in increases means the company is paying about 64 an hour now. That means after adjusting for inflation all of the increases are going to insurance and pension. Since we'll be losing buying power by the end of the contract, it's the same as if we were paying some out of pocket for insurance premiums. Nice try, though.

 

[PT Car Washer]

Adjusted for inflation it's not that much. 73 per hour in 2023 is 65 in 2018. 9.15 in increases means the company is paying about 64 an hour now. That means all of the increases are going to insurance and pension, and since we'll be losing buying power by the end of the contract, it's the same as if we were paying some out of pocket for insurance premiums. Nice try, though.

$40/hr and you are worried about buying power?

 

[Neanderthal]

Adjusted for inflation it's not that much. 73 per hour in 2023 is 65 in 2018. 9.15 in increases means the company is paying about 64 an hour now. That means all of the increases are going to insurance and pension, and since we'll be losing buying power by the end of the contract, it's the same as if we were paying some out of pocket for insurance premiums. Nice try, though.

9.15 / 5 = $1.83 a year / five years

Let’s say our base is $63 for this

$1.58 Is 2.5 % of 63 (or raise over)
$1.83 is about a 2.9 % increase

You cannot consider anything but the whole package when you are looking at the CPI index

The other thing to consider is that nationally not every person is subject to the same inflation. The major US cities will run into issues - but there are likely many areas where a ups driver has a dentist and lawyer as neighbors

 

[zubenelgenubi]

$40/hr and you are worried about buying power?

If you still don't understand inflation I can't help you, but I'll try. 41 in 2023 is less than 36 now, assuming 2.5% inflation. It'll actually be worse because inflation is rising, and it's averaged 2.9% for the last 30-40 years.

I'm not concerned about buying power, I've stated multiple times that I'd be willing to sacrifice some buying power in order to fix the contract. My point is the wage/pension/insurance increases the yessers are touting are not as impressive as they try to make them seem, so it's an invalid argument, and not a reason to vote yes.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

View attachment 212729

9.15 / 5 = $1.83 a year / five years

Let’s say our base is $63 for this

$1.58 Is 2.5 % of 63 (or raise over)
$1.83 is about a 2.9 % increase

You cannot consider anything but the whole package when you are looking at the CPI index

The other thing to consider is that nationally not every person is subject to the same inflation. The major US cities will run into issues - but there are likely many areas where a ups driver has a dentist and lawyer as neighbors

So you do understand that the increases aren't impressive, just barely above maintenance assuming inflation doesn't increase. And the overall composition of compensation is changing, some of our wages are being diverted to pay for the benefits.

I'd go into how to figure out employment costs vs actual compensation, but that would take too long. I've touched on it in other posts.

 

[PT Car Washer]

So you do understand that the increases aren't impressive, just barely above maintenance assuming inflation doesn't increase. And the overall composition of compensation is changing, some of our wages are being diverted to pay for the benefits.

And the starting PT wage was $8/hr in 1982 and now in 2018 the starting wage is $10/hr. How about that for buying power.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

And the starting PT wage was $8/hr in 1982 and now in 2018 the starting wage is $10/hr. How about that for buying power.

You are preaching to the choir. But the argument I was addressing was about full time wages and whether or not they were a reason for voting yes. I think you've talked about making as much per hour as ground drivers, so, if you are interested in helping part timers who make less than you, what are you willing to sacrifice to see that happen? I've already said what I'm willing to sacrifice for their benefit.

 

[PT Car Washer]

You are preaching to the choir. But the argument I was addressing was about full time wages and whether or not they were a reason for voting yes. I think you've talked about making as much per hour as ground drivers, so, if you are interested in helping part timers who make less than you, what are you willing to sacrifice to see that happen? I've already said what I'm willing to sacrifice for their benefit.

I am willing to retire if the improvements in the PT pension go through. Actually the thought of making $39/hr for the little work I do makes it really hard to give up.

 

[Neanderthal]

So you do understand that the increases aren't impressive, just barely above maintenance assuming inflation doesn't increase. And the overall composition of compensation is changing, some of our wages are being diverted to pay for the benefits.

I'd go into how to figure out employment costs vs actual compensation, but that would take too long. I've touched on it in other posts.

2033 I don’t disagree with you that the numbers don’t seem overly impressive to us independently

I think it is important to remain relative to the competitive market and we are far above that now at ups compared to the other shippers that deal with ground

At some point there has to be maintainence. If we get more in this contract it would be stagnation later on in the following contracts as the growth of ups is restrictive to that agreement

 

[542thruNthru]

Well, got my ballot today and voted. Took 5 min.

How you vote is up to you. I just hope everyone lurking takes the time to....

 

[Time for change]

Ha ha! Yeah right! You think he is gonna take a pay cut and deal with the reality of working for a local. He ain’t gonna leave the gravy train no matter how much he hates package. Face it he will be TDU’s poster boy and lap dog for the rest of his life.

Pay cut? Do the math, that was one week. Vacation weeks....BA and Local President make 107,000-120,000 with lots of perks and nothing nearing a 60 hour week.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

2033 I don’t disagree with you that the numbers don’t seem overly impressive to us independently

I think it is important to remain relative to the competitive market and we are far above that now at ups compared to the other shippers that deal with ground

At some point there has to be maintainence. If we get more in this contract it would be stagnation later on in the following contracts as the growth of ups is restrictive to that agreement

I wasn't happy with the concessions from the last two contracts, but I'd be more than happy with just maintaining everything we have. But what they want in return for just maintaining compensation for ground drivers is too much, and should be voted down.

 

[Time for change]

Nobody is voting no because of top driver pay rate, you people are deceitful liars that completely twist the no vote campaign. Luckily you aren’t very good at it otherwise this thing might pass.