Has Hoffa and the IBT surrendered?

[705red]

Red I'm clearly not the pension guru that you must be, but I fail to see how a pension plan that was DOA before is now worse now?

Last time I checked everything ends at the end of this contract. was this the first you discovered that contracts have to be renegotiated when they end?

Did you also as a pension guru discover that pension liability goes beyond the scope of a contract and is therefore mandated by law?

Lots of misinformation in your posts buddy you can do better then this.

WHen UPS was selling it cases to teh members in the CS paln and else where they said it was in the best interest of the people in that plan. They said they would make up the difference for UPSers in that plan whne they reire, they never said only for the next 5 years. UPSers will have to trade away alot to help the cs pensioners in the future negotiations because UPS pulled a fsat one, or our IBT agreed to sell out the members.

Out of the thousands of members on thi site, only 2 are defending Hoffa, and they are both management. Who would have thought that?

 

[Jones]

WHen UPS was selling it cases to teh members in the CS paln and else where they said it was in the best interest of the people in that plan. They said they would make up the difference for UPSers in that plan whne they reire, they never said only for the next 5 years. UPSers will have to trade away alot to help the cs pensioners in the future negotiations because UPS pulled a fsat one, or our IBT agreed to sell out the members.

Out of the thousands of members on this site, only 2 are defending Hoffa, and they are both management. Who would have thought that?

And that pretty much says it all.

 

[tieguy]

No Red no spin, just appears you were speaking out of both sides of your mouth.
Actually I don't know your grievance system well enough to think you would only be blaming Hoffa for it.
for some silly reason I thought your grievance system was implemented prior to Hoffa.

I thank you for clarifying the point that you were really trying to blame Hoffa for the national grievance processes failures.

With that said I did see all the cases you posted. It appears your locals did win a lot of cases in the various panels.

The part I guess I don't understand is how you would blame Hoffa for the losses, I guess you're not giving him credit for the wins? Did Hoffa actually present the cases at these panels?

Its Hoffa people that sit on the panel for the union side, you know the ines that crawl under the blamket with the company to spoon. Thats the problem with the panel, my only other beef would be it should meeat more reuglarly. 4 times a year is not enough..

You think Ron Carey would let these jobs get eliminated? Hell no![/QUOTE]

Ron Carey? Depends on whether he needed to sell a book or not.

ok so this is a national grievance panel right? equal number of company and equal number of union on each side of panel? No arbitrator making the final decision?
So if everyone toes the line then every case is dead locked right?

How then is Hoffa responsbile for what happens there? should every case have ended up with a deadlock?

 

[tieguy]

WHen UPS was selling it cases to teh members in the CS paln and else where they said it was in the best interest of the people in that plan. They said they would make up the difference for UPSers in that plan whne they reire, they never said only for the next 5 years. UPSers will have to trade away alot to help the cs pensioners in the future negotiations because UPS pulled a fsat one, or our IBT agreed to sell out the members.

Out of the thousands of members on thi site, only 2 are defending Hoffa, and they are both management. Who woulod have thought that?

Red I hear your point but I don't understand it. Pension plans are protected by laws. contracts are renegotiated every time they end. Are you saying that your leadership won't negotiate money for CS when the current contract ends?

Red I'm not arguing for Hoffa I'm arguing against misinformation. that point you made is part of the bullschit you spin here and I'm not surprised that jones was stupid enough to co sign on it.

If you're bull**** is this fragile that you have to use that kind of defense then your members will see through it and thank me for exposing you.

 

[tieguy]

And that pretty much says it all.

you forget to extend your arm and click your heels when you made that post. If you're going to be that gullible to misinformation at least give us all a good goose step to enjoy.

 

[deleted9]

not impressed either you are probally one of the new suits with 3 or 4 shares , so i will go with the 44 dollars per hour. you keep working your 60 hour weeks which averages out to about 3 dollars an hour with your great health bennies and all the other perks that comes with pulling a tie so tight that it chokes the oxygen to your brain.

LMAOL I think 2 units is a part time sup or he feels inadequate with the size of his unit so he wants a second one.[/QUOTE]


What a childish response..... if you really are a steward i feel sorry for that local, you are probably a management wanabe who does not have the confidence in yourself to try and get promoted...... or you have tried and was turned down....... either way there are those that want to better their-self and the world needs ditch diggers also.

 

[705red]

Its Hoffa people that sit on the panel for the union side, you know the ines that crawl under the blamket with the company to spoon. Thats the problem with the panel, my only other beef would be it should meeat more reuglarly. 4 times a year is not enough..

You think Ron Carey would let these jobs get eliminated? Hell no!

Ron Carey? Depends on whether he needed to sell a book or not.

ok so this is a national grievance panel right? equal number of company and equal number of union on each side of panel? No arbitrator making the final decision?
So if everyone toes the line then every case is dead locked right?

How then is Hoffa responsbile for what happens there? should every case have ended up with a deadlock?[/QUOTE]

Its amazing the spin you put on things, of course he is reponsible, hes the top gut and is held responsible for every move that the IBT makes. He has thousands of people laid off and jobs being eliminated in a violation of the contract, clear, cut and dry violation of the contract. If its a good grievance absolutely, deadlock it! Give it to our attorneys and let UPS waste its money defending it and in the end eating the arbitration costs if we win it.

 

[705red]

Red I hear your point but I don't understand it. Pension plans are protected by laws. contracts are renegotiated every time they end. Are you saying that your leadership won't negotiate money for CS when the current contract ends?

Red I'm not arguing for Hoffa I'm arguing against misinformation. that point you made is part of the bullschit you spin here and I'm not surprised that jones was stupid enough to co sign on it.

If you're bull**** is this fragile that you have to use that kind of defense then your members will see through it and thank me for exposing you.

Contarcts are negotiatted you are right. The pension contributions are negotiated as in how much UPS will put into a fund every week on the behalf of an employee. The funds themselves are seperete from the contract. When UPS bought out of the cs plan there should have been an understanding that they must mainatin the difference in the plan for all teh UPS retirees currently in that plan, not just for 5 years. Thats a load of crap!

UPS has paid its liability to that fund Tie, so whos the one spreading mistruths?

 

[tieguy]

Contarcts are negotiatted you are right.?

good job, I hope that did not hurt?

 

[SWORDFISH]

LMAOL I think 2 units is a part time sup or he feels inadequate with the size of his unit so he wants a second one.

What a childish response..... if you really are a steward i feel sorry for that local, you are probably a management wanabe who does not have the confidence in yourself to try and get promoted...... or you have tried and was turned down....... either way there are those that want to better their-self and the world needs ditch diggers also.[/QUOTE]

LOL.... No one wants your job anywhere I know of. They have to go to the ditches to hire for management. Our last 3 management people were hires out of no where cuz no one wants the position. Two of them want to be drivers. They hate having to be management.

 

[tieguy]

the problem is not just hoffa , the main problem is our group is only as strong as the weakest link. we can't get our members to stand behind our stewards never mind anything else. all you have to do is read through some of these posts you have people working off the clock " in the name of good quality service " and that is acceptable . you also have knuckleheads cutting our own members apart for the side of management . if we all could stand as a single unit we could get a lot more accomplished but that will never happen because too many of our members are half a suit.

I don't see that. Heck your guys stood together and lied and played stupid when one of your members blatantly attacked a family member of mine here. the question I guess is are those qualities want you want to see in order to "stick together"?

 

[Kevin211]

I was tired when I posted that last night. Hall said its the members and local offcials fault for noe bringing good cases or having any facts. Are we to believe that 22 locals and 26 cases that not 1 of them is a good case? Now I understand that there are bad cases and lazy agents and members that dont give goood grievances, but 1 of those 22.3 cases has to have merit, im assuming all 26 do and Hall had buckled to the company. Just read those decisions, 9.5 grievances upheld, will reduce paid day but no pay? ***!! No pay means they will continue to violate the driver.

All of those 9.5s if the union would understand means more full time jobs, lowered paid days equals more routes. Its not brain surgery!

How about all the subcontracting cases, our work being done by scabs. By reading the dockets, decisions and ssing the cases being postpones equals that our IBT leadership is weak and in bed with UPS. 4 poctponed 22.3 cases for over 13 months, uncalled for, pension plans are being robbed of those payments, part timers looking to go fukll time are being robbed. Yet Hoffa made $362,000 last year, while companies like YRC took pension frezzes adn gave back 10% wages, now ABF is trying the same. How long will we let this continue?

http://tdu.org/node/3834

Hey Red705, I have to agree with the union being in bed with ups... When ups bought out the pension( back in the day) That was the day the union lost it's power with ups.

 

[Kevin211]

Things won't change untill we remove hoffa and his people... Then we will also need to build from the ground up with the locals and membership. If the membership has no balls then why should we expect anyless from the ibt.

Together we can fight a great battle!!

 

[deleted9]

What a childish response..... if you really are a steward i feel sorry for that local, you are probably a management wanabe who does not have the confidence in yourself to try and get promoted...... or you have tried and was turned down....... either way there are those that want to better their-self and the world needs ditch diggers also.

LOL.... No one wants your job anywhere I know of. They have to go to the ditches to hire for management. Our last 3 management people were hires out of no where cuz no one wants the position. Two of them want to be drivers. They hate having to be management.[/QUOTE]


Again another foolish and childish statement, " No one wants your job anywhere I know of ", Apparently you do not know much, Ups prides itself on promoting from within, giving the people that work for the company the first opportunity to better themselves.

 

[705red]

LOL.... No one wants your job anywhere I know of. They have to go to the ditches to hire for management. Our last 3 management people were hires out of no where cuz no one wants the position. Two of them want to be drivers. They hate having to be management.

Again another foolish and childish statement, " No one wants your job anywhere I know of ", Apparently you do not know much, Ups prides itself on promoting from within, giving the people that work for the company the first opportunity to better themselves.[/QUOTE]

I have to ask, have you been in a coma and just awoke? Or did you just get the internet in your parts? There is no more UPS pride, ita all about the non ups shareholder.

 

[705red]

good job, I hope that did not hurt?

Is that where you stopped reading my response? You did see where I talked about UPS paying its liabilty to teh CS plan, but you did not comment.

 

[tieguy]

I have to ask, have you been in a coma and just awoke? Or did you just get the internet in your parts? There is no more UPS pride, ita all about the non ups shareholder.

crap , found something we agree on.

 

[deleted9]

Again another foolish and childish statement, " No one wants your job anywhere I know of ", Apparently you do not know much, Ups prides itself on promoting from within, giving the people that work for the company the first opportunity to better themselves.

I have to ask, have you been in a coma and just awoke? Or did you just get the internet in your parts? There is no more UPS pride, ita all about the non ups shareholder.[/QUOTE]


Shame on you, UPS has given me opportunity to better myself, i took full advantage of it. Sorry you didn't take advantage of it, Maybe you have no pride in the company you work for but i do. You can complain, bad mouth, verbally abuse the company, the union and people on this forum, be miserable every day at work, and act like you know it all. My member name says it all if you even know what it means, you will probably retire some day and live comfortable but am living like a King, never having to work again my children are taken care of for the rest of their life and all this because of the opportunity this company has given me and me taking advantage of the opportunity presented. So if you think i'm living in a coma so be it.

 

[Anonymous 10]

crap , found something we agree on.

1+ it sucks to be in management and it sucks to be 2units as for my being a steward I work my ass off for free with not much thanks and I love it that's why I do it. Most of the guys and girls I think like the job I do as a steward but like my mom always told me not everyone is going to like you. I can tell you this for sure it takes balls and a lot of caring to take the job of a steward while most of your fellow co workers only have to worry about wiping there own ass.

 

[705red]

Oh? So you are reitered, that means you are out of the operation and have lost touch with the reality of every day living at uPS. You should have just said so. The current UPS does not take care of any of its employees, managers or union hourlies. Do you take the time to read any of the other posts? Ups escorts employees out and sneds them their things a few days later, they cut management jobs as well as wrongfully eliminate union jobs. They force managemnt to take a pay freeze all while the CEO gets the biggest raise to over 6 million a year.

Maybe if you got off your throne a little more you would be current on todays UPS.