brett636
Well-Known Member
Irrelevant. Those principles do not apply to people outside our borders who lack our constitutional protections.
Healthcare goes up 38 percent
- Thread starter unionman
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Irrelevant. Those principles do not apply to people outside our borders who lack our constitutional protections.
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
Actually if the "giants" opened up shop across state lines this would be a good thing. Think economies of scale through operational efficiency or even on some level economies of scope with the reduction of long run marginal and average costs.
Kindly explain how tort reform will not reduce medical costs in a free market.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I don't usually swim in the deep end of the pool here in Current Events but I thought there was already some tort reform either in place or in the works. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Babagounj
Strength through joy
California has tort reform. But it is not included anywhere in obamacare.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Anthem, which is a subsidiary of Wellpoint, has agreed to delay their proposed rate increases for 2 months to give insurance regulators time to evaluate their proposal.
tieguy
Banned
another fine example of why we dont need more governement control of our health care. Insurance regulators that do not regulate.
Kind of like a postal commission that continues to allow the post office the right to subisdize their package delivery service with their monopoly on first class mail.
Lue C Fur
Evil member
klein
Für Meno :)
Oh no...i bet Kleins ears are burning.
Well, no doubt !
Look at that wonderful city ofg Vancouver (even NBC, said it's 1 of the best cities to live in).
Wow, I guess they forgot the heathcare issue. !!!
They all die (but oddly enough, later in age then americans).
You can believe want you want.
I can't seem to get world news here at all.
Mostly Hollywood news.
Thats more important here.
Your healthcare reminds me of the Stanely cup in Hockey.
You pay and go bankrupt (like Arizona), just to try to win the cup.
Sooner or later, those Doctors and Nurses you got from Canada and overseas for big monthly wages.... won't no longer be affordable.
But, in the meantime let the Chinese pay for your overpaid doctors, pharma, and insurance industry.
And you can keep your 20 something years of a trade deficit.
Since you heatlhcare cost more per month, then employess make in total earnings other countries.
Meaning, even Canada, your $1500 (give or take).... per month more expensive then we are.
I felt sorry, for Toyota leaving it's California plant, for Ontario , Canada.
But... manufacturing is too darn expenisvie in the USA.
Keep conservative..... and the more job losses and bankrupt the USa WILL go.
(just my opinion)
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brett636
Well-Known Member
Your right, spending money like its going out of style has worked real well for places like Dubia, Greece, Spain, and Portugal. The U.S. should just follow their lead because the results obviously speak for themselves.
diesel96
Well-Known Member
Actually if the "giants" opened up shop across state lines this would be a good thing. Think economies of scale through operational efficiency or even on some level economies of scope with the reduction of long run marginal and average costs.
Think of the airline industry, the giants pool their creative juices together and fool you into thinking costs are reduced, and quality is enhanced, however, at the end of the day, they nickel and dime you to death with luggage fee's, overwieght fee's, headphone fee's, small lunch fee's,(soon will be blanket and pillow fee's). All's not lost, eventhough airline meals have been cut, we do get a free bag of pretzels..."Pretzels"...By the time you get off the plane, your craving for the first Dim Sum buffet you pass. You can add that tab to your ticket price also...lol
Kindly explain how tort reform will not reduce medical costs in a free market.
Amid the obstructionists’ claims that health care reform is socialist or a means of speeding Grandma towards her deathbed, a large focus of the conservative position on health care reform has been that frivolous lawsuits drive up health care costs and require doctors to practice defensive medicine that’s costly and wasteful.
a study by the Massachusetts Medical Society that found that five out of six doctors said they ordered additional tests, procedures and referrals to protect themselves from lawsuits. “Defensive medicine” wastes more than $200 billion a year.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/opinion/12baker.html
Health economists and independent legal experts who study the issue, say that malpractice liability costs are a small fraction of the spiraling costs of the U.S. health care system, and that the medical errors that malpractice liability tries to prevent are themselves a huge cost
That's Dubya...We have been following their lead for the past decade. Where was all ruckus on spending back then ?
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
Actually that will not work. The Government decides among other things which routes an airline can fly, what types of aircraft they can operate, which cities they operate in, etc.. The point is that there is no competition as the government grants mini monopolies if you will to each airline in the form of their hub and spoke system. Even so it is far more efficient to move any considerable distance by air rather than by auto, train, horse, or foot. Think more along the lines of something as a liberal that you hate. Wal Mart. They have greater buying power which allows them to drive down the costs of their suppliers and in turn allows them to offer their goods to the consumer at a reduced cost. This in turn drives the less efficient competitors out of the market giving them a larger market share which gives them a greater buying power which continues to drive prices lower. The prices are kept low since they have no government granted monopoly so at any time they raise prices enough it would allow someone to take advantage and enter the market with a more efficient model and compete. The ultimate winner is the consumer with goods and services at the prices they are willing to pay.
brett636
Well-Known Member
Its become apparent to me that there is a lot of money to be made in the business of treating liberals who suffer from Bush Derrangement Syndrome as well as teaching you basic principles of math and numbers. Last I checked Bush is no longer President, and Obama has already nearly matched Bush's eight years of overspending in just two years which means he has another two years of trillion dollar plus deficits to ensure a less than stellar future for generations to come. Although I'm sure your perfectly ok with that as Marxists such as yourself have an innate desire to destroy this country, and any other that allows individuals to make their own path in life.
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
Sorry I overlooked your post. Tort reform has really been a states issue in the past. The states that have done it have seen increases in medical providers, reduction in malpractice insurance rates, reduction in defensive medical tests, and surprisingly a reduction in malpractice lawsuits.
States that have not done tort reform have seen medical costs rise at a faster rate than other states and doctors leave rural areas. This in the most basic terms is an increase in the cost to provide a service and a decrease in the supply of the service.
In my opinion civil laws should be left up to the states. The problem is that you cannot ignore the pink elephant in the room(Medicare). Let's just ignore the fact that Medicare is a stupid program without some type of reform you now have the Federal government taking money from a state that is more efficient to give to a state that is less efficient. In the simplest terms you are rewarding failure. Medicare is really the only way to justify Federal medical tort reform.
This takes us back to the issue at hand. People are demanding that health care costs be lower. Bottom line that is the primary concern. All the polls that I have looked at either outright state this or strongly suggest this. There is a proven way to reduce health care costs in this country and that is by tort reform. Without tort reform you end up with a exodus of capacity which in turn leads to a decrease in affordability. This is a provable recurring problem that I know has existed since the 1970's in this country.
A secondary problem without tort reform is that medical providers eliminate risky procedures that lower the quality of care. This is a reduction in health care quality.
Here are some facts. In medical malpractice awards that go to jury the defendant wins 80% of the time. The average defense cost is $87,000. The average cost to defend a case that gets dismissed is $17,000. The growth in the size of jury awards and settlements has grown at a faster rate than the costs of health care according to the AMA(that one was for diesel). Medical liability adds billions to the costs of health care each year.( Thats from the HHS for you lovers of the Federal government). The HHS says that the litigation system not only raises costs but decreases quality. Another thing ,medical liability costs have outpaced the costs of overall tort in the US.(AMA)
Here is a brief summary of the benefits of tort reform from the CBO. It's only about seven pages but if you are interested in the subject really brings things down to the most basic level. The President and Congress want to spend a trillion dollars and there is a nifty chart there that show the enormous amount of money that would be saved and also reduce the national debt at the same time. The CBO also says that premiums would actually be reduced by 10% with national tort reform. This would reduce national health care expenditures by 35 billion dollars. If all the most common tort reform ideas were passed there would be an estimated national savings of a trillion dollars over ten years versus the Obama plan at a cost of a trillion dollars over ten years. That is a huge swing. By 2019 there could be a 54% reduction in the deficit with tort reform. Mind you that this takes into account that some states have already adopted these changes.
I had more but I doubt anyone read all that anyhow.
Link
av8torntn
Well-Known Member
I just wanted to add to the above. The presidents plan will take a trillion dollars out of the economy over ten years and spend a trillion dollars in five years on health care related matters. Tort reform would cut health care costs by a trillion dollars over ten years. That is a two trillion dollar swing. That is probably the simplest way to put it. There is support for this across party lines. This is a real solution offered by the republicans. The dims have blocked any attempts to pass these measures independently. If a politician wanted to reduce health care costs and reduce the national debt this would be a very efficient and easy way to go about it.
Could you post the relative sizes in GDP and expenditures of the nations you listed just so that we can know that we are comparing apples to apples?
Shhhhhh. They never learn if you keep answering for them.
Yeah, well I'd rather be alive to talk about...
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