Wouldn't want to go back to an old 800 or 1000 any day. I love my automatic, and it's one of the last reasons I've stayed as a driver. My knees and legs are shot, and there's no way I can continue driving those old pieces of crap. Nothing about the older manuals is better. I didn't get stuck one time this Winter with all the new we had in the new 8, and having a better heater does make a difference. More room in the cab in the newer vehicle, and the seat is a 1,000x's more comfortable. So it beeps a lot. Are you kidding me?! I'll take the minor annoyance of a few beeps all day than get stuck driving an old P800. You rookies have no idea how much those manuals and clutches wear on your bodies.