IF the contract is voted down, what issues do you think will be addressed?

[balland chain]

In 1997, UPS was offering the same amount of full-time jobs Hall is selling us out for today, 2350.

In 1997, the starting wage at UPS was $8.00 an hour. After the strike it went up just .50 cents.

Today, part-time workers (67% of the total UPS work force) are poorer than they were in 1997.

Today, 140,000 UPSers will pay a heavy price when we get merged into that garbage healthplan a.k.a. TEAMCARE.

140,000 UPSers will go from paying $0 in deductibles to $400. They will also go from paying $5 on prescription medication to; $50 for that same prescription if this garbage is ratified.

Retirees in the areas covering those 140,000 UPSers currently pay $50 a month for a company provided superior healthcare; if this TA passes they will pay $300 per month.

Right now and more than ever there is a need to vote NO!

I really wish all the persons who voted yes (including the driver that delivers to me) would open their eyes and READ.. I had a delivery yesterday, I spoke to the driver and asked his opinion on the contract. He said well I hope it passes.. I said " do you realized if this passes, drivers who are injured like me, and are unable to do their job, will no longer be able to seek a settlement from the company, and be offered a part time job if available, and work that job, and if your lucky enough to recover, IF your prior job is available you can have it back, you have 3 years to become well enough to do your former job." His response was , wow I never heard that. I said well, I was at the union meeting, and if you would open the proposed agreement that was enclosed with your ballot and turn to pages 4 & 5, you too can read this. He had nothing else to say.

One of the biggest problems we have is uninformed voters. Yes you have every right to vote the way you want to, however, if you are voting yes please state your reasons for doing so.. And worrying about missing a pay check does not qualify.. They have plenty of time to give us a BETTER contract. There is nothing in the TA that would make me vote yes.. Reasons for NO, 1) stated above, 2) healthcare , 3) lack of equality in the pension plan, 4)Retirees healthcare, specifically cost of. I have a horrible feeling this will pass, I pray it does not.

We have given our lives and bodies to this company, so the Corporate elite can become even richer.. Management has not and never will treat us with dignity and respect like the signs posted thru out the building say they will. Management will continue to harass drivers for petty infractions, with their ultimate goal being termination. Oh, yes my BA stated things are going to change and management will no longer harass us like they have been.. Please, I have been there 26 years, and unless you are a kiss-ass, you will at sometime be pulled into the office and grilled by the management team.

Another reason, and I will stop, Look at the par timers and what they do, and how much (LITTLE) they are paid. Their pay has been flat for almost 14 years. Us full timers need to remember the days when we were part timers and stand up for them, it is the right thing to do. !

 

[Anonymous 10]

That might be better. People where following Ron. Now people are speaking out on their own. It is also about the Hoffa/Hall slate. People are regretting their vote for these clowns.

Yea if sandy pope was in we would dominate ups!!!!!!!!!!! Fat chance

 

[oldupsman]

The problem is there is not ONE underlying issue Hoffa/Hall can circle and say that's what we need changed.

Every post on this site about voting NO has the whole contract unworthy

At least when we striked in '97, Full time jobs and Part time poverty was the rallying cry

Right now, there is no voice, only whining !!

No Heff, there is one voice. It's all about losing the UPS health care. If that issue was off the table this thing would fly through.
And I just can't get through to people like yourself , Stink ,407, how pissed off we are about that. I'm hearing from people who have never
voted no voting no this time. The next thing I can't get through to you people is that this is your chance to get BETTER health care.
The financial package is fine. Nobody is mad about that. But we be better off taking 20 cents less an hour for 5 years and keeping our UPS
health care. And so would you if you got the UPS health care.
​
There will never be a strike. Neither UPS or the Teamsters have the balls to go on strike. If this thing gets voted down they'll come up with
something. Both sides will know why it got turned down. It's all about the health care.

 

[Hawfuh Sux]

No Heff, there is one voice. It's all about losing the UPS health care. If that issue was off the table this thing would fly through.
And I just can't get through to people like yourself , Stink ,407, how pissed off we are about that. I'm hearing from people who have never
voted no voting no this time. The next thing I can't get through to you people is that this is your chance to get BETTER health care.
The financial package is fine. Nobody is mad about that. But we be better off taking 20 cents less an hour for 5 years and keeping our UPS
health care. And so would you if you got the UPS health care.
​
There will never be a strike. Neither UPS or the Teamsters have the balls to go on strike. If this thing gets voted down they'll come up with
something. Both sides will know why it got turned down. It's all about the health care.

You hit them where the sun don't shine brother!

 

[balland chain]

Similar to a point I've previously made... UPS is in a strong cash position within a weak labor market & could've forced a strike / broke the Teamsters if it really wanted to (felt it was within its best interests). Of course, we had oodles of drivers who believe $92,000/year + no-cost H&W is an insult, and nobody could possibly do the job they do for less.

As a feeder driver I would love to make 92K a year. Hell they have cut our hours and some weeks I was getting only 43 hours.. If your a senior driver 35 + years, you are able to hold a run that get OT or even better a mileage driver, but those guys have 39 + years...The rest of us in the middle or bottom are lucky, and happy if we get over 45 hours a week. It is not that often though...

 

[ymelord]

I hope free socks are addressed, record profits and we still have to buy our socks.

 

[Johney]

Oh, you're that guy with the bright blue house with the red metal roof.

Yup!

 

[HEFFERNAN]

In 1997, UPS was offering the same amount of full-time jobs Hall is selling us out for today, 2350.

In 1997, the starting wage at UPS was $8.00 an hour. After the strike it went up just .50 cents.

Today, part-time workers (67% of the total UPS work force) are poorer than they were in 1997.

Today, 140,000 UPSers will pay a heavy price when we get merged into that garbage healthplan a.k.a. TEAMCARE.

140,000 UPSers will go from paying $0 in deductibles to $400. They will also go from paying $5 on prescription medication to; $50 for that same prescription.

Retirees in the areas covering those 140,000 UPSers currently pay $50 a month for a company provided superior healthcare; if this TA passes they will pay $300 per month for an inferior health plan.

In these areas we are able to retire at Golden 80, if this garbage passes the Golden 80 is eliminated and we won't be able to retire with full benefits until we're 55 years old. Currently we have people retiring at 48 years of age with a full pension and full benefits!

Right now and more than ever there is a huge reason for everyone to vote NO!

it's not to much difference from 97, Where's the 22.3 full time jobs. We still have part time poverty but now you add harassment, 9.5 rules, smart post. We did the give backs last contract. Remember the CS health plan? the 22.3 jobs that were never made? At what point is UPS going to tell me I need to pay them just to work for a fine company like UPS.

If I was doing a new TA I would do health care and make drivers and CS have the better benefits. Enforce the 9.5 , let part timers start at 10.00 an hour. and do what ever I could to keep the pension the same or better. The 2 things that has set UPS apart is it's health care and it's pension. I would be cool with .35 cents an hour raise and have the rest go towards are pension

No Heff, there is one voice. It's all about losing the UPS health care. If that issue was off the table this thing would fly through.
And I just can't get through to people like yourself , Stink ,407, how pissed off we are about that. I'm hearing from people who have never
voted no voting no this time. The next thing I can't get through to you people is that this is your chance to get BETTER health care.
The financial package is fine. Nobody is mad about that. But we be better off taking 20 cents less an hour for 5 years and keeping our UPS
health care. And so would you if you got the UPS health care.
​
There will never be a strike. Neither UPS or the Teamsters have the balls to go on strike. If this thing gets voted down they'll come up with
something. Both sides will know why it got turned down. It's all about the health care.

A) Part time "poverty" is not even an issue. You are at the bottom rung of the ladder. WE knew that when we signed that application way back then. You get your annual raises, you get your "free" healthcare, you get the OPPORTUNITY to increase your pay by either going into management, staying PT for healthcare plus a second job or staying the course and going full time driving. It's not some evil plan by UPS to keep the man down !! When you walked into orientation, you knew the cards you were dealt plus you saw the dealer's cards too.


B) As for healthcare, The whole healthcare system in America is broken. I know that. You know that. UPS doesn't want the responsibility anymore, and you can't blame them. You cry of inferior coverage now, but you have better healthcare than 99% of the people you will walk by this weekend. Yet, we are spoiled because of low co-pays, deductibles and the like.
Let me remind all of you, its called healthcare INSURANCE. Insurance is there in case of emergencies !!!! We are lucky enough to not have to pay anything to be covered by it. But sorry to break it to you, If you use it and it's not an emergency, you will have to pay a little out of pocket. Honestly, probably less than the 99% of the people you will walk by this weekend.

I understand the retiree's thoughts on this. Raising the price of healthcare on them is not good. I know now why I am correct in saving extra money in a 401k because I can not be sure if my pension will cover my expenses in 18 years. I hope most who read this will see how saving some of your income is crucial !!!!

 

[gr8ful]

VOTE NO. This is a sell out craptract. If this goes trough, on Jan 1 we go into teamcare, on Jan 2 our deductibles and copays will go up, in two years they will double again, and in four years there will be no money to pay for it, they will have drained the pension dry to cover it. Then it will be dropped all together and we will have to enter an Obamacare exchange. Meanwhile the company will be making over 6 Billion in profits, stock will be out the roof, and the board of trustees will be laughing at us so loud my stomach will ache in pain. Mock my words, this is the end of our benefits and the death of our pension fund. Don't let anyone tell you that you have had a silver spoon all these years. Silver spoon means everything was handed to you. I worked my butt off (along with my knees, elbows, shoulders, back) for what I have. I am ready to strike at any time, learned my lesson in 97 with that craptract offer. Any contract year you should get yourself one month ahead on your bills just in case, and that is what I have done.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I will be so gr8ful when this contract is ratified on the 22nd and these trolls disappear.

 

[ogrelord]

A) Part time "poverty" is not even an issue. You are at the bottom rung of the ladder. WE knew that when we signed that application way back then. You get your annual raises, you get your "free" healthcare, you get the OPPORTUNITY to increase your pay by either going into management, staying PT for healthcare plus a second job or staying the course and going full time driving. It's not some evil plan by UPS to keep the man down !! When you walked into orientation, you knew the cards you were dealt plus you saw the dealer's cards too.


B) As for healthcare, The whole healthcare system in America is broken. I know that. You know that. UPS doesn't want the responsibility anymore, and you can't blame them. You cry of inferior coverage now, but you have better healthcare than 99% of the people you will walk by this weekend. Yet, we are spoiled because of low co-pays, deductibles and the like.
Let me remind all of you, its called healthcare INSURANCE. Insurance is there in case of emergencies !!!! We are lucky enough to not have to pay anything to be covered by it. But sorry to break it to you, If you use it and it's not an emergency, you will have to pay a little out of pocket. Honestly, probably less than the 99% of the people you will walk by this weekend.

I understand the retiree's thoughts on this. Raising the price of healthcare on them is not good. I know now why I am correct in saving extra money in a 401k because I can not be sure if my pension will cover my expenses in 18 years. I hope most who read this will see how saving some of your income is crucial !!!!

A) We were told Over the last 10 years they would Make so many 22.3 jobs, never happened. So all the Part Timer Got stacked up, When they never made 10k worth of 22.3. UPS and are Union Signed a contract stating that it would happen. do you go around breaking contracts? So to say they were told what they we're in for when they started was a lie. Look at the line of teamsters behind you waiting for their chance, are you really going to tell them "sorry i'm not going to fight as hard for you, as other teamsters did for me"?

B)Why should it change? is UPS losing money hand over fist? Have they been loosing volume? only thing that's has been lost is workers rights. They made 4 billion in profit last year. our Health Care Coverage was taken care of and then they still made 4.8 BILLION. The Company is doing better over all, sitting on 53 Billion in extra cash. You state that we have better coverage then most people, well does UPS have a better yearly profit then most company's?

I get it, your happy to have a job when so many other people don't, your happy you can pay your bills and have a little left over, But at some point it has to be about the masses. e pluribus Unum = Out of many comes one. Teamster are already hurting, is UPS hurting with 4.8 BILLON in pure profit?

 

[oldupsman]

A) Part time "poverty" is not even an issue. You are at the bottom rung of the ladder. WE knew that when we signed that application way back then. You get your annual raises, you get your "free" healthcare, you get the OPPORTUNITY to increase your pay by either going into management, staying PT for healthcare plus a second job or staying the course and going full time driving. It's not some evil plan by UPS to keep the man down !! When you walked into orientation, you knew the cards you were dealt plus you saw the dealer's cards too.


B) As for healthcare, The whole healthcare system in America is broken. I know that. You know that. UPS doesn't want the responsibility anymore, and you can't blame them. You cry of inferior coverage now, but you have better healthcare than 99% of the people you will walk by this weekend. Yet, we are spoiled because of low co-pays, deductibles and the like.
Let me remind all of you, its called healthcare INSURANCE. Insurance is there in case of emergencies !!!! We are lucky enough to not have to pay anything to be covered by it. But sorry to break it to you, If you use it and it's not an emergency, you will have to pay a little out of pocket. Honestly, probably less than the 99% of the people you will walk by this weekend.

I understand the retiree's thoughts on this. Raising the price of healthcare on them is not good. I know now why I am correct in saving extra money in a 401k because I can not be sure if my pension will cover my expenses in 18 years. I hope most who read this will see how saving some of your income is crucial !!!!

A) Couldn't agree more. We all knew what we signing up for.

B) Yes the healthcare system is broken. Yes we have it better than most people. Why shouldn't we? This company made a net profit of 4 BILLION last year. So why should we take less?
Why shouldn't you get more? What constitutes an emergency Heff? I know what you're saying. You're the kind of guy, you have a cold, you don't go to the doctor.
Me neither. But who are you or I to make a decision for people when it comes to their health.

I think by my posts most people realize I've been very passionate about this issue. Well Heff, here's the kicker, I am retired. And thanks for your concern over the
increased cost to me. If this passes I'm getting grandfathered into UPS health care anyway. And even at an increase from 50 to 300 a month it's a bargain.
Honestly I'm not fighting for myself. I'm fighting for all those good people I left behind. You have a whole bunch of people with anywhere from 10 to 25 years in
and this deal just totally royally STINKS for them. And UPS just wants to wipe their hands clean and walk away. Just because we have it better than most of our
friends doesn't make it alright.

 

[HEFFERNAN]

A) We were told Over the last 10 years they would Make so many 22.3 jobs, never happened. So all the Part Timer Got stacked up, When they never made 10k worth of 22.3. UPS and are Union Signed a contract stating that it would happen. do you go around breaking contracts? So to say they were told what they we're in for when they started was a lie. Look at the line of teamsters behind you waiting for their chance, are you really going to tell them "sorry i'm not going to fight as hard for you, as other teamsters did for me"?

B)Why should it change? is UPS losing money hand over fist? Have they been loosing volume? only thing that's has been lost is workers rights. They made 4 billion in profit last year. our Health Care Coverage was taken care of and then they still made 4.8 BILLION. The Company is doing better over all, sitting on 53 Billion in extra cash. You state that we have better coverage then most people, well does UPS have a better yearly profit then most company's?

I get it, your happy to have a job when so many other people don't, your happy you can pay your bills and have a little left over, But at some point it has to be about the masses. e pluribus Unum = Out of many comes one. Teamster are already hurting, is UPS hurting with 4.8 BILLON in pure profit?

Aa) The Great Recession, lack of volume, and hesitation of senior Feeder drivers to retire forced UPS's hand. You can't create jobs when there is nothing productive the worker can do. I would love to bash UPS on not fulfilling its promises in the past 7 years, but this whole country took a punch to the gut. Now that the economy has come back, the Teamsters made sure Article 22.3 on the National Master was a priority and UPS can not wiggle out from under it.

Bb) You can't blame UPS for not wanting to get into a 5 year contract with Teamsters and its current healthcare plan. They don't want it on their books. Healthcare insurance is a National issue, not just a UPS issue. The rate of rising healthcare disgusts me and I won't blame UPS if they asked us to share the burden.

​I respect your point of view and intelligent post

 

[Catatonic]

A) Couldn't agree more. We all knew what we signing up for.

B) Yes the healthcare system is broken. Yes we have it better than most people. Why shouldn't we? This company made a net profit of 4 BILLION last year. So why should we take less?
Why shouldn't you get more? What constitutes an emergency Heff? I know what you're saying. You're the kind of guy, you have a cold, you don't go to the doctor.
Me neither. But who are you or I to make a decision for people when it comes to their health.

I think by my posts most people realize I've been very passionate about this issue. Well Heff, here's the kicker, I am retired. And thanks for your concern over the
increased cost to me. If this passes I'm getting grandfathered into UPS health care anyway. And even at an increase from 50 to 300 a month it's a bargain.
Honestly I'm not fighting for myself. I'm fighting for all those good people I left behind. You have a whole bunch of people with anywhere from 10 to 25 years in
and this deal just totally royally STINKS for them. And UPS just wants to wipe their hands clean and walk away. Just because we have it better than most of our
friends doesn't make it alright.

It was not net ... it was after tax.
This has been discussed ad nauseum so go look it up ... it'll stick better that way.
​Regardless, UPS made a good profit with which they pay dividends, deferred compensation, Capital Expenditures, etc.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Hoke, out of the $4B after-tax profit, how much do you think was pure or net profit?

 

[Brownslave688]

Heff many part timers don't know what they are getting into. How many stories have u heard about HR telling people they will be driving within 2 years. Only for that employee to find out 6 months later high man on the list has 7 years in.

Also when did u start part time? If u have 18 left before retirement ill guess somewhere close to 2000. Well that 8.50 u signed up for was worth more than the 8.50 they sign up for now. So u see not exactly the same boat.

 

[HEFFERNAN]

Heff many part timers don't know what they are getting into. How many stories have u heard about HR telling people they will be driving within 2 years. Only for that employee to find out 6 months later high man on the list has 7 years in.

Also when did u start part time? If u have 18 left before retirement ill guess somewhere close to 2000. Well that 8.50 u signed up for was worth more than the 8.50 they sign up for now. So u see not exactly the same boat.

Honestly, I have no idea. When I was hired in 1995, they took us around the hub showing us how hard everybody works and kept telling us this isn't for everybody. The pay was ok, but the initiation fees every week sucked. Back then, I also got college reimbursement so that made up for it. Pay hasn't risen much, no more cash for college but the only way to the top of ladder is to step on and go for it. Not many careers with benefits without a college education.

Every contract, UPS seems to keep adding rungs to that ladder. It's been 18 1/2 years and eventhough I'm getting top rate, I feel I'm still only half way up that ladder. To me the top of the ladder is retirement with a 30 year pension, not some arbitrary number on my pay rate. Regardless, seniority heals all your pain

 

[Bagels]

Hoke, out of the $4B after-tax profit, how much do you think was pure or net profit?

Huh? A $4B after-tax profit is pure profit. Are you referring to the portion they held onto, after paying out record dividends, etc.? Because of the one-time $3B accounting charge, their retained earnings account actually decreased.

 

[bleedinbrown58]

Heff many part timers don't know what they are getting into. How many stories have u heard about HR telling people they will be driving within 2 years. Only for that employee to find out 6 months later high man on the list has 7 years in.

Also when did u start part time? If u have 18 left before retirement ill guess somewhere close to 2000. Well that 8.50 u sign up for was worth more than the 8.50 they sign up for now. So u see not exactly the same boat.

I think it's 9.50 now in my hub lol. And some new meat told me just last week HR told him he could be driving FT in 18 months....which is at least 6years off the mark.

 

[NI1]

If the contract is voted down UPS will most likely not be able to recover from this. I was here when we went on strike in the 90's and around that time customers don't have a choice because RPS, airborne and FedEx were not equipped to handle our volume so we do have a huge leverage. Fast forward it to now. FedEx for example is ready to take all of it. That is one reality that we need to deal with.

BUT to answer the question.... Health care is first. And the 9.5 language should be changed to automatic triple pay past 9.5, this will stop this for real. No need to 'opt in' ... Everyone should be 'In' and if they don't want to they can 'opt out' I think we have it on Reverse all along