Indy Contract

[bobs barricade tester]

bob:


What the heck was this suppose to mean?



Nobody asked you how long you've been driving for, and I think everyone of you guy's that I see in a major hurry would say they were safe. even though they are not.



You add the dues into your loss column, but in my case the insurance will go down $100 a month with the contract. That would bring this to a positive $45

How many times do I have to say this, You are not entitled to the match. How can you lose something you never had in the first place?? You overnite guys make me laugh. Whine all you want about the 401k.

My raises in the next 5 years will be double that under the contract as compared to the Overnite past raises. I will get $.10 cpm over the next 5 years. Add another loss to the positive column.

I don't know where you are getting your info for your losses, but this is plain nonsense. You are just looking for excuses why the Union is bad for you, and the excuses are pitiful, downright childish.

And as far as the new 401k bs, it is not the same as a pension. You said they didn't do away with the pension, I say they did. And that's exactly what they did. You can have your 401k, I will still have mine and a pension under the contract. NO match, but it was not mine in the first place. I've gotten over this, you haven't. I have also semi gotten over the $6000 a year loss that I incurred when Motor Cargo's benefits were lowered to Overnites standards. You see, I've already lost, you haven't and I still don't see you losing with the contract. I would like to continue the argument but you obviously have a problem with the Union and nothing anyone will say will change that. Your losses are without truth. Have a happy future being miserable. Unionization is eminent, you either get on board, or find another job. Complaining effects the people around you, do you honestly want to become that guy that can't let go.

Take care.

why shouldn't I add the dues to the loss column? I comes out of my check.

I never said the 401k was the same as a pension, the people that "lose" there pension get put into a "paf" account THAT is the same as a pension with the benefit of it being portable. There not losing anything.

You say you will have your pension under a contract, you do realize there is nothing in the contract about a pension, don't you? So you can loose that just as easy as the 401k. You seem to think the pension is guaranteed, it is not.

Under the contract road drivers will get an average of $.10 per mile raise per year. If you run 400 miles per day that is an increase of $10,400 over 5 years.

this year we got $.015 per mile over 5 years that is $.075.
400 miles per day = $7,800

under the contract you get an increase of $7,800
your ins savings $6,000
total increase $13,800

dues $4,322
401k match $11,830

total loss $16,152

net loss $2,352

Attack me all you want and throw out any numbers you want, but real world numbers don't lie. I used your numbers not mine, you will get a savings of $6000 on your ins. but it doesn't cover the losses.

 

[Buckethead]

really don't care much about indy contract, but the comment about overnite taking over motorcargo and that motorcargo lost in the deal is chit, has anybody seen the shape of the units motorcargo has(trucks,trailers,dollies) if they took so much pride in there company why let there units get in bad shape, must be from giving them drivers big paychecks no money left over for fleet service

The employees of Motor Cargo lost. As far as the equipment, they used to replace equipment on a regular basis. I always had a newer tractor and the trailers were also replaced on a regular basis. Since the integration, I've notice that MC equipment that would have never been in use due to age when MC was on their own, is still being used and bandaged together with this new company.

 

[Buckethead]

why shouldn't I add the dues to the loss column? I comes out of my check.

I never said the 401k was the same as a pension, the people that "lose" there pension get put into a "paf" account THAT is the same as a pension with the benefit of it being portable. There not losing anything.

You say you will have your pension under a contract, you do realize there is nothing in the contract about a pension, don't you? So you can loose that just as easy as the 401k. You seem to think the pension is guaranteed, it is not.

Under the contract road drivers will get an average of $.10 per mile raise per year. If you run 400 miles per day that is an increase of $10,400 over 5 years.

this year we got $.015 per mile over 5 years that is $.075.
400 miles per day = $7,800

under the contract you get an increase of $7,800
your ins savings $6,000
total increase $13,800

dues $4,322
401k match $11,830

total loss $16,152

net loss $2,352

Attack me all you want and throw out any numbers you want, but real world numbers don't lie. I used your numbers not mine, you will get a savings of $6000 on your ins. but it doesn't cover the losses.

I guess you do want to be that guy.

Also, I'm sure you meant it different, but it's not .10cpm per year, it's .10cpm over 5 years. If it was per year, the parcel guy's would really have something to be mad at us about.

With your negativity, you should go find another job. You can keep worrying about loosing money you don't have/not entitled to, but we all know your real agenda, anti-union. This company want's UPS Freight to be union. If nothing else in my post makes sense to you, this should. If not, like the numbers are doing to you, you would be fooling yourself also.

 

[bobs barricade tester]

I am negative becuase I show concerns about this contract?

Also there is nothing about delay pay in this contract. As you said it does.

 

[gregmilam]

"Employees will be paid for all hours spent in the service of their employer." This was in the Indianapolis Rundown of the contract. This negates the possibility of not being paid for your delays. Furthermore, the current "delay time pay" (13.00/hr) will no longer be recognized, and all employees will recieve wages concurrent to their base hourly wage (21.50 currently) and no less while being in service for the employer. To address pension squabbles, UPS Ground Freight, your employer which is a subsidiary of the United Parcel Service, will not give the pension dividends to the Teamsters (speaking of central states pension program directly) because UPS bought out of the Teamsters pension programs, and now deal with pensions directly. All UPS and UPSF employees are still eligible for the pension program through UPS after a service period of no less than 20 years. Once the Teamsters are integrated, we as employees have the option to enroll into the Teamsters 401k retirement plan, as well as UPS 401k plans. The pension is a seperate issue, and deffers completely from a 401k. We aren't losing a pension as of yet, but this could change for those who haven't locked in at the 20 years to be eligible.

The rest is dependent on individual terminal negotiations. Either way, more job security, wages, benefits, and better treatment are on the way.

 

[bobs barricade tester]

Greg I have 70+ pages of the contract, The paid for time article. Does not specify what "in service" is what is stopping the company from telling a road driver to take 2 hours off? Then you would no longer be in service.

Delay pay is not mentioned anywhere in the contract.

 

[helloitsme]

I am a road driver and I grew up at Overnite. I have done an apples to apples comparison and figured with the raises I will gain at the very least $5000.00 a year under the Freight Agreement.These Union haters that don't want to organize are also brown nosers who kiss the boss's rear end so that the rule book don't apply to them.They are afraid that they won't be able to get thier way and get people wrote up on b.s. charges. They will not be able to bully the weak and get by with it.

 

[gregmilam]

The union train cannot be stopped. What can be done is your terminal's contract negotiations. Every terminal has the right to change the base contract to suit both the company and employees needs. I was handed a printout from the teamsters directly which listed the Indy contract highlights, and the fifth bullet down was in regards to the delay time issues. I guess all you can do is wait for your negotiations to begin, and voice your concerns to the union representatives and co-workers to get support for what you want.

 

[bobs barricade tester]

That is exactly what I am doing, our negoitiations are set for 2 weeks, new england negoitiated as a region and they are done, just waiting to see what gets accepted and turned down.

I belong to another forum and there are indy road drivers on it. What they have said is they have to work to get paid even if that means empty trash or sweep trailers. I don't beleiv everything I read on the internt but that seems to fall right inline with what the contract says. Your only paid while your in service.

I have looked at the nmfa and it clearly says road drivers will be paid for any delays.

The more I read this contract the language is not very strong.


helloitsme, just curious are you counting the 401k match loss? Or do you not contribute to it? Every person I have sat down with that says there gonna gain, I can show them a loss. It looks like UPS had this figuired out a long time ago they new what to offer us where it would be a wash there not gonna payout any more then they are now.

 

[helloitsme]

Yes I included the loss of the match. Where you gain money is the reduced costs for healt care.Remember the match is only 3% and is in Class B stocks,which do not mature for five years. I would rather invest that money somwhere else and try to diversify my investments. Never place your eggs in one basket.

 

[Teddy Bear]

Columbus, Ohio is signing cards and looking to get their 51%. All who attended the last meeting received a copy of the Indy Contract.
I have a couple questions about that contract…I don’t have the contract in front of me…so hopefully I will get this right.
There is a part about overtime paid after 8 and then it says something about after 40 and no pyramiding….exactly what does that mean? Is over time paid after 8? Or after 40? Or after 8 if you actually work a 40 hour week? What about weeks with Holidays….the days following holidays are usually 10 and 11 plus days…….

 

[helloitsme]

Columbus, Ohio is signing cards and looking to get their 51%. All who attended the last meeting received a copy of the Indy Contract.
I have a couple questions about that contract…I don’t have the contract in front of me…so hopefully I will get this right.
There is a part about overtime paid after 8 and then it says something about after 40 and no pyramiding….exactly what does that mean? Is over time paid after 8? Or after 40? Or after 8 if you actually work a 40 hour week? What about weeks with Holidays….the days following holidays are usually 10 and 11 plus days…….

I am not sure what pyramiding means. If you are guaranteed 40 a week you will get overtime pay after 40 hrs. Also this is to dicourage them from working you less than 8 hrs a day then working you 12 or 13 on friday. That is why the after 8 clause is in there. They still owe you your overtime after 8 hours. Say they work you three 9 hr shifts...one 7 hr shift and one 6 hr shift. They still owe you your ot for those three days you worked OT. However, if you work four 8 hr shifts and one 12 hour shift...you are still only going to collect time and a half after your 40.

BTW , I am a columbus driver....why weren't you at the last meeting ? Do you have a contract copy ? Those were handed out at the last meeting . So were you or weren't you at that meeting ? Sure your not a supe fishing for info ?

 

[bobs barricade tester]

Pyramiding overtime would be counting hours after 8 and after 40 together.

remember if you work 10,10 8,6,7 you would get 1 hour of ot and 40 regular.

If you got ot after 8 you woud get 4 hours of ot and 37 regular hours.

Pyramiding would be 4 ot hours and 40 regular hours.

 

[Teddy Bear]

BTW , I am a columbus driver....why weren't you at the last meeting ? Do you have a contract copy ? Those were handed out at the last meeting . So were you or weren't you at that meeting ? Sure your not a supe fishing for info ?

I was kinda there......I am not the employee but the spouse and spouse was there. "We" do have a copy of the indy contract and I had even read it before the meeting. This is the way I understand the contract....what I have studied of it so far anyway....please correct me if I am wrong....you are guarenteed an 8 hr shift if you are on a bid position (I am referring to a City Driver bid route). So if you don't work 8 hrs you would still get paid for 8 hrs. But the OT rule would not kick in until after you WORK a 40 hour week. I think you guys in Columbus need to hold out for the OT after 8 period. I believe that is what the "Brown" guys get. Could be wrong though....that has been known to happen occassionally! But the way it reads "if" I understand it you aren't going to be gaining much. You will still be worked 2 or 3 LONG days and then a couple short days to equal you out to 40. You should get compensated for those 11 and 12 hour days that are so common no matter what you work the rest of the week.

I have a second concern and I have not looked over the contract to see if I can find the answer.....maybe someone here has heard this same story and can tell me the answer.
First I will talk about emoloyee A: A few years ago "A" broke a bone and was off work for several weeks. "A" has the disability insurance and for the most part got along fine; kept his bills paid, etc. This is under the Overnite management.
Now we have employee "B": "B" also got hurt. "B" reports that under the UPSF management his medical insurance was not paid the weeks he was off. I don't know if "B" had the disability insurance or not.
Now since I am the spouse and not the employee of UPSF I am getting the above story second hand but something sounds "fishy" to me. If you are an employee even if you are off on medical leave your insurance should still be paid. (Or does it come out of your disability pay and if you don't have the disability you are SOL?) Can anyone make any sense to this story?

 

[Teddy Bear]

OK I found the OT in the indy contract that I was refering to above.....

Section 3: All hours worked in excess of 8 hours in any one day or 40 hours in any one week shall be paid at the rate of time and a half the regular hourly rate but not both. Overtime shall not be pyramided. Pay for hours not worked shall not count toward the 40.

So does this mean that you will get paid for OT after 8 hours a day or not? I am usually not this confused on things like this.... I understand that vacation and holidays do not count toward a 40 hour week....thats the way it is now.....

I think I am trying to make something simple, hard.......

Let's assume I worked 10 hours Monday
and 8 hours today
I am off work the rest of the week for vacation

I will get 24 hours vacation pay
16 hours straight time and 2 hours OT..... is that correct?
Or do I still have to WORK 40 hours in the week to get that OT? In which case nothing is really changing from the way it is now except to gain OT after 40.

 

[bobs barricade tester]

you would get the 2 hours of ot.

The part where it says "or after 40" is there to cover someone who works 6 days at 7 hours a day he would get 2 hours of ot.

 

[Teddy Bear]

Thanks, I really am not a stupid person....knew I was making something very simple hard.....

What do you know about the insurance if you are off work for a few weeks to a few months due to medical reason?

 

[bobs barricade tester]

nothing, I can't find anything about the short term or long term benifits.

 

[helloitsme]

I was kinda there......I am not the employee but the spouse and spouse was there. "We" do have a copy of the indy contract and I had even read it before the meeting. This is the way I understand the contract....what I have studied of it so far anyway....please correct me if I am wrong....you are guarenteed an 8 hr shift if you are on a bid position (I am referring to a City Driver bid route). So if you don't work 8 hrs you would still get paid for 8 hrs. But the OT rule would not kick in until after you WORK a 40 hour week. I think you guys in Columbus need to hold out for the OT after 8 period. I believe that is what the "Brown" guys get. Could be wrong though....that has been known to happen occassionally! But the way it reads "if" I understand it you aren't going to be gaining much. You will still be worked 2 or 3 LONG days and then a couple short days to equal you out to 40. You should get compensated for those 11 and 12 hour days that are so common no matter what you work the rest of the week.

I have a second concern and I have not looked over the contract to see if I can find the answer.....maybe someone here has heard this same story and can tell me the answer.
First I will talk about emoloyee A: A few years ago "A" broke a bone and was off work for several weeks. "A" has the disability insurance and for the most part got along fine; kept his bills paid, etc. This is under the Overnite management.
Now we have employee "B": "B" also got hurt. "B" reports that under the UPSF management his medical insurance was not paid the weeks he was off. I don't know if "B" had the disability insurance or not.
Now since I am the spouse and not the employee of UPSF I am getting the above story second hand but something sounds "fishy" to me. If you are an employee even if you are off on medical leave your insurance should still be paid. (Or does it come out of your disability pay and if you don't have the disability you are SOL?) Can anyone make any sense to this story?

I am going to take the time to try to explain this. I believe the OT question has been answered in another post. As far as the A and B comparisons,that was PAINSTAKINGLY put together by an employee at his OWN cost for the benefit of wages and health care savings under the Indianapolis Freight Agreement. It was not put out by the Teamters Union at all.

As far as the insurance being paid while on medical leave,that was addressed to hall,the lead negotiater for the Teamsters Union, at that meeting. He said he would address this in the negotiations,but,no promises.

As far as holding out for what the parcel boys make....I have one question for you ? How well do you know the freight biz. The profit margins between freight and parcel are way different. Parcel is much more profitible than freight will EVER will be ! UPS will never agree to that. We will be close to being the highest paid freight drivers in the nation. We are not advocating a work stoppage either, if that's where your thoughts were heading.

Please keep in mind this is the FIRST CONTRACT. It won't be great,but,it wont be bad either. I can guarantee you this. UPS wants the freight division to be Unionized. A contract lets them know five years in advance what thier operating exspenses will be. Also, it eases tensions between Freight workers and Parcel workers because we will ALL be under contract and the Parcel guys won't be thinking that the company will be farming thier work out to non-union employees in the freight division. Also,since I believe this has been the grand scheme of things from the beginning,I think that any terminal which doesn't join the Teamsters union will see thier jobs whither up and blow away to the majority of the barns who have "seen the light" ! I was employed at "o" during the teamsters strike and I will agree some of the B.S. pulled by BOTH sides was wrong. The fact is that as much as I liked working at Overnite,it is only a memory now and it will never be the laid back, family oriented company it once was. There is only UPS now and they know how to do one thing really well,make money. I would hate to think what it will be like working for them WITHOUT THE UNION.

 

[Teddy Bear]

Hello, you are correct that "O" is but a memory. BobsB explained the OT...I knew I was making a simple thing hard with that one....but just couldn't wrap my mind around it. Not being at the meeting (being a spouse and all) I get my info second hand, from hubby and others that I know....everyone seems to hear things differently.

I did hear a little while ago (not from hubby) that Columbus got enough signatures....I signed on here hoping to see that was true....

I understand that freight and parcel have many varied differences. So that you and others that read and post here don't think I am totally stupid I have a cognitave disorder that sometimes doesn't allow me to express exactly what I am thinking....or want to say.....very frusterating to one who has always been quicker than lighting and probably more frusterating to those I deal with....so please bear with me if I take an extra minute to "get it". Unfortunately it is usually the simple things like the OT issue that takes time and the more complex issues I understand quite well.

Back to the freight and parcel....I didn't mean to hold out for everything they have...I was refering to the OT....OT after 8....which is the way the contract reads, I just wasn't understanding it. This is a big gain for city drivers and dock workers. I can't speak for OTR as I don't know anything about how they get paid.

I am also very interested in the insurance....the savings is fantastic....IF the plan is as good. I think we have exceptional insurance now and would hate to lose the great coverage or have high co pays. All I've seen so far is the papers from last week's meeting which says that the insureance for employee plus spouse will go from aprox $100.00 per week to $100.00 per month which is a saving of about $4,400.00 per year. That's a big savings if it isn't eaten up by co pays and deductibles.

And ofcourse I had the question about the insurance being paid while off on disability. I would think...and this is just me thinking.....that the UPSF part of the ins would continue to be paid as usual....after all you are still an employee....but the employee's part would either be the responsibility of the employee or come out of his or her disability check either by deduction or direct pay by the employee. If you did not take out the disability insurance you would be responsible to come up with that money yourself. If you aren't receiving a pay check (or disability check) then UPSF has nothing to take your portion from. Therefore it might be a wise choice to take extra disability insurance out through AFLAC which I believe is offered. I am BIG on having enough insurance coverage. One never knows what tomorrow will bring but with certainty it will bring the same monthly bills in the mail box, working or not.

Hello, I just reread your reply and LORD NO I WAS NOT THINKING WORK STOPPAGE! That thought never entered my mind!