July Countdown

[ok2bclever]

I like the binding arbitration idea better than a No Strike Clause.

That just wouldn't work with UPS. Throughout their history they have had to be monetarily forced (fines, package car lockups by government officials,etc) to do what is right if it is something they don't want to do.

Guess what, despite the rhetoric they don't really want to reward their people in this increasingly non-union environment.

I cannot imagine the repercussions that it would require to replace strike potential as a prod to negotiate in good faith.

It isn't a secure future for everyone if there is nothing to truly make UPS bargain in good faith.

Some sort of binding arbitration would be better.

 

[michael]

Ok2bclever

I think they would both produce the same outcome. The fact that there would be no interruption in service. I think that is what would benefit both sides the most. I guess if I was looking at this from your perspective I would feel much the same as you do. I would be cautious as well. Some of the things that you refer to, fines and those sorts of things are not always created by the company. Often they are caused by the employees. I am not here to get into how to run a business; I think we are in agreement about what would be good for both sides. Its just a matter of how we get there.

Michael

 

[wkmac]

You could insure geneuine, honest discussion of contracts with the right language. That's what I mean by "what is a no-strike situation worth?" The real problem IMO is do we have people smart enough on both sides to reach an agreement that is fair and enforcable for both sides? As for UPS wanting to reward it's people,etc. etc. I'm not blind here. If they can get us for less money then I'm sure they will try and I'm not upset by this at all. It's business, not personal. The fact is, none of us knows what the company offered and what the union asked for. Only thing we know is the union said it wasn't enough and don't forget like the company, the union has an agenda here also and it may or may not be in your best interest either.

IMO, an arbitration system could be set up that would force all sides to have an open book with one another and I'll bet if you look at past history, our wages, benefits, etc. have always been a certain percentage of the gross and there has been little movement from that percentage. And that goes for management costs as well I'll bet. I'll even bet the reason MIP varies from year to year is that this is based on a certain formula to fit within a certain percentage range of the whole and year to year that percentage doesn't vary much at all. IMO this is keeping with a certain business model and this is good. Doing things different (arbitration) may allow us more insight into these models and formulas and therefore we benefit in the good times. BUT it will also mean we suffer in the not to good years either. It's complex, no argument here, but IMO it's an idea worth exploring. But fear not! It won't happen because the more level headed members are being convinced to quit the union by management folks who fail to realize that once the radicals have total control it will be pure chaos. Right now the union is here by law under Fed Labor regulations so be careful and think long and hard before you walk away without trying to make a change. Most who complain never even went down to the local halls and voted during the strike vote. Until the leadership knows the majority think different and are willing to do something to voice those feeling then the radical element will continue to have sway with this union. JMO.

 

[dirtnut67]

I am new to this Brown Cafe and there is something that I want to ask all other UPS people. If Brown would just treat there empoyee's like people do you think that big $ raises would be so important? After all the $ is what is holding up the hand shake. Am I the only one that feels this way?

 

[robonono]

wkmac,

I couldn't agree more with your closing comment:
"...so be careful and think long and hard before you walk away without trying to make a change. Most who complain never even went down to the local halls and voted during the strike vote. Until the leadership knows the majority think different and are willing to do something to voice those feeling then the radical element will continue to have sway with this union. JMO."

EXCELLENT point!

 

[upscustomer]

Great suggestions regarding no-strike solutions. If those were in place now, we would remain a happy UPS customer.

You guys have to understand that shipping is a commodity business. All we really care about is that our packages get to our customers on time, our returns are handled properly, and we're charged a good price. UPS did a great job for us in all three areas. But FedEx would have as well. So all things being equal, why would we want to take on the risk of UPS' unstable labor situation.

I think and hope that you will resolve this without the necessity of a strike. But keep in mind: it's the ongoing threat of a strike that does the most harm, not the strike itself. Resolving everything at the 11th hour does nothing to retain your customers.

I agree that those UPS profits will disappear fast if some sort of service continuity provision isn't worked into the new labor agreement.

 

[superstarsorter]

we striked last contract..most likely we will strike this contract and there is more strikes to come ..the way it looks ..lol the face is trying to cross a picket line...lol

 

[thedrooler]

Wow!

Drooler

 

[wkmac]

"You guys have to understand that shipping is a commodity business."

upscustomer,
You are so right in what you said. As a Teamster, in 1995 I became a UPS shareholder (I also honored the 97' strike even though I disagreed and still do) and I started to learn what I could about global business with Transportation related issues being the focus. I'm still learning BTW! I've come to believe based on what I've learned so far that American Union practices of work stoppages to obtain contracts or contract enforcement will so hamstring American companies going global that failure on the global stage will be the end result. This at the end of the day will hurt the employees the most especially those who are union members. IMO, we'd better wake up (and when I say we I mean the union members and leadership) and think about doing something different. Right at this very minute, UPS is planning a route that one day the union will throw out the strike threat and UPS will say, "OK, go for it!" If in their shoes I would do no less. The real question is do we work together for the benefit of all or do we continue the same ole'

 

[wkmac]

dirtnut,
Treatment of employees is cyclical in nature at UPS IMO. Sometimes you get a bad supervisor and suffer until a change or you have a good local management team and all of a sudden they change. That change may be a result of a new Division, District or even Region manager or it could just be some numbnuts in Corp. who couldn't find a package if sitting in front of him or her much less do something with it who has come out with a memo to now do things this way. Local management has no choice sometimes but to act on the memo even when they know it's stupid and won't work. Yes, there are people who got promoted who should not have but IMO most UPS people whether hourly or management are good people who want to do the job and do it well but you'll always have a few on bothsides that their goal in life is to screw things up for everyone else so as to cover up their own in-eptness at doing the job. Also remember that we've heard this and that about the $$$$ issues with the contract but nothing in the way of specifics. What was the amount the company offered and what was the amount the union asked for? No one knows! Personally, I'm not impressed with all this rhetoric talk from both sides. Reminds me too much of the idiots in the halls of Congress. Until they give me specifics I'm just not buying! JMO.

 

[tc_guy]

I've been coming to this site and this message board for a couple of months. I am a manager at an ITW company that uses UPS.

The last strike caused us an incredible amount of trouble, and caused our customers a lot of trouble and expense too. I understand that this time the pilots are not planning to fly, that's very unfortunate because it absolutely takes away ANY UPS option this time around.

So we have began to switch business to Fedex, starting a couple of months ago. Our account is worth about $200,000 a year to UPS and our plan is to divide it 50/50 with Fedex in the future.

The simple fact is that the guys who are working on the contract don't really give a damn about the shareholders or the employees... they mostly care about what is in it for themselves. What is in it for them? Money. The more the better.

I have been a union member and a manager, and I have to honestly say that I don't believe that the union leadership is looking out for the best interests of the members. No different than the CEO looking out for the best interests of their employees.

Sometimes you just hope for the best, and I personally hope that it gets settled soon.

 

[gsx1990]

I said this last year, and will say it again. This thing is going to go down to the wire, the
very last minute. I still put the odds of a strike at 60-40, there will be one. The teamsters
are no longer happy with being the highest paid
in the industry. They want EVERY golden egg!
Today is a convient exit point for the stock, I
hate to say it, but I'm selling again. Its a shame the silent minority of decent hard working teamsters have let the radicals take hold of
the organization. The UPS-teamsters relationship could be a great one, instead GREED
has taken hold. What a shame!

 

[ja7618]

As the wife of a UPSers I sure hate to see this thing carry on till the last minute. I just don't see what the union has to complain about, we are making good salaries, have good benfits. My husband has 23 yrs in and he has never had a rough time with anyone in management, but he comes in every day does his area and goes home. He doesn't complain and they know he does a good job. A lot of these people on this site sound like not the best of employees and they would complain it they made $40.00 a hour. Nothing would make them happy. We have to get this settled before we lose more business and then they have to lay off drivers and all other employees. The union needs to get with it.

 

[rckfrd98]

I am strongly considering withdrawing from the union!

 

[lr1937]

Rckfrd
I would suggest that 80% of your teamster ups brothers are as fed up with the union leadership as you are. However, you let a few hard headed teamster bullies at ups dictate the agenda. You folks should get together and make your voices be heard and not like tdu. It is the same thing that happens with our policticians. People opt out and don't vote and don't participate. I think that dropping out means you are willing to settle for whatever the bullies and anti company ups teamsters want. Hang in there and hold your teamster leadership accountable. Get a bunch of people together and out shout the thugs at the local meetings. Your teamster leadership gets most of its information from the very negative ups employees. Stand up and be heard. Its like the bully in school, the more they can push you around the more they will take advantage of you.

 

[gsx1990]

The press is filled more and more with articles
about companies diverting volume. Can you blame
them? I for one would do the same thing. The
teamster leadership have from the start been extremely agressive with their drive to get
"EVERY GOLDEN EGG"! The silent MAJORITY (not minority as I mistyped in my last post) need to
speak up and let their leadership KNOW NOW they want
a fair agreement, but "EVERY GOLDEN EGG" is a bit
too much.

ja7619, you are completely correct. The UPS
mechanics were offered $40 an hour base pay, not
even including overtime. They have GREAT benefits. There were to be paid the highest in
the industry, and they voted it down. There is
one simple word for this ....GREED!

If there is a strike I will put the blame solely
on the ridiculous demands made by the teamsters.
What is wrong with being "just the highest paid"
in the industry? Do they have to bring UPS down?
If they do, I hope UPS BREAKS the union. If
UPS goes down, so do the teamsters!

 

[dirtnut67]

I believe that this contract battle boiles down to one factor. ($) This seems to be the factor with every decision UPS makes. No I am not saying that UPS should make decisions that cost them $. I am saying that greed has become a factor in the decisions that have been made. I am refering to both Union and Management. If only I could trust UPS Management we wouldn't need the Union. We could all work to better our company as a team. That means we could all profit. Well this forum is based on opinions. I have given mine and I believe my opinions would work. If only I could trust UPS management.
DREAMS ARE HEALTHY AND EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE THEM.

Dirtnut67

 

[lizz54]

gsx1990,

You are absolutely correct, "if UPS goes down, so do the teamsters!" However, do you think the Teamsters will accept any of the responsibilty? They will blame UPS for everything and say they didn't come to table with good intentions to bargain. It's all about greed. Where will the Teamsters find jobs for all the UPS Teamsters and what will their pay and bene be then???

 

[gsx1990]

lizz,
No doubt. Funny thing however is that it will
be tough for the teamsters to say that UPS didn't
come to the table with good intentions when the
teamsters are ALREADY the highest paid in the
industry.......what the hell do they want? Oh
yea, they want "EVERY GOLDEN EGG"!! Talk about
greed....

The silent majority NEEDS to speak up, and NOW!

 

[my2cents]

lr1937,

Shouting down the thugs is complicated by the fact that the union can fine or expel a member or a caucus of members for activities which union officials deem to be "undermining the union." Despite the LMRDA's "Bill of Rights for Union Members," free speech within the union is still restricted. One can check their local's bylaws and the IBT Constitution for the rules. Members have been fined in the past for urging an end to a strike or speaking their views publicly about a current strike. In fact, some vocal UPSers were fined back in '97 for speaking their minds. Members can also be disciplined for advocating decertification. In short, the message is toe the union line or else. With this type of environment, many are afraid to say anything. Personally, I find these types of rules to be totalitarian in nature.