Management SRP/EBO Sad & Happy Faces

[UPS Lifer]

Cream rises to the top does it? I can tell you 1st hand from 20 + years of delivering to a huge waste water treatment plant that sch&*%t floats too.

Yeah... I would probably use your analogy more for our government than UPS. I have often thought of Washington as one big cesspool! Sooooo, that fits pretty darn well!

 

[moreluck]

D.C. stands for District Cesspool !!

 

[Treegrower]

Yeah... I would probably use your analogy more for our government than UPS. I have often thought of Washington as one big cesspool! Sooooo, that fits pretty darn well!

Don"t delflect. We all know about the troubles in Washington. Let's keep the discussion on UPS. IMHO I have seen a deceidely worse crop of mangers and supervisors come along in the past 10-12 years or so. I worry for this company. As the last rements of the old tried and true operations and even staff guys leave, i fear for dark days ahead at UPS.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Don"t delflect. We all know about the troubles in Washington. Let's keep the discussion on UPS. IMHO I have seen a deceidely worse crop of mangers and supervisors come along in the past 10-12 years or so. I worry for this company. As the last rements of the old tried and true operations and even staff guys leave, i fear for dark days ahead at UPS.

I am not disparaged by the managers and supervisors of today. Times and conditions have changed. X and Y geners will and (are) running this company. The process to move ahead still remains the same. I really do believe that the best people will continue to rise up and be good leaders. I believe in the Peter Principle and have seen it in action. This company will chew you up and spit you out if you do not fit the bill. All it takes is a one good manager to make a good crop of supervisors and one good division manager to mold a successful group of managers etc. etc. Those who don't cut it will not survive and the cycle will start again. You can count on this and take it to the bank.

 

[upsgrunt]

I am not disparaged by the managers and supervisors of today. Times and conditions have changed. X and Y geners will and (are) running this company. The process to move ahead still remains the same. I really do believe that the best people will continue to rise up and be good leaders. I believe in the Peter Principle and have seen it in action. This company will chew you up and spit you out if you do not fit the bill. All it takes is a one good manager to make a good crop of supervisors and one good division manager to mold a successful group of managers etc. etc. Those who don't cut it will not survive and the cycle will start again. You can count on this and take it to the bank.

Please explain this- I've never heard of it.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The Peter Principle is the principle that "In a Hierarchy Every Employee Tends to Rise to His Level of Incompetence." It was formulated by Dr. Laurence J. Peter and Raymond Hull in their 1969 book The Peter Principle, a humorous treatise which also introduced the "salutary science of Hierarchiology", "inadvertently founded" by Peter. It holds that in a hierarchy, members are promoted so long as they work competently. Sooner or later they are promoted to a position at which they are no longer competent (their "level of incompetence"), and there they remain, being unable to earn further promotions. This principle can be modeled and has theoretical validity.[1] Peter's Corollary states that "in time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out his duties" and adds that "work is accomplished by those employees who have not yet reached their level of incompetence".

 

[spitt2000]

Re: Culture is dead

If someone in sales can't sell and can't make their numbers, why should they continue to be employed in sales? I can't think of many professional sales forces that allow sales people who can't sell to continue their employment. Is the culture at UPS dead? No, but it is changing. In the past, BD was "customer service" and was the home of some that did not really fit in at other departments so they were sent to customer service since they could not really do much damage. This was back in the days before RPS and any meaningful competition--customer service really did not have to sell anything as UPS was really the only game in town and customer service were more order takers and customer maintenance than true sales people.

It's a very different world now---lots of competition to deal with and global supply chains are a complicated thing. Just becuase you are a good driver, a good sorter or a good I.E. planner does not mean you will be a good sales person. IMHO, UPS has recognized this and is changing to adapt. I think that in 5-10 years, the sales force will be made up of true sales professionals and a majority of them come from outside of UPS. The pay structure will change and there will be more upside potential for those that sell and bring in the high revenue packages. Sales is tough--if you don't like the constant pressure to perform, it's not the place for you. If you can't bring in more money that is paid to you on a consistent basis, what are you adding to the bottom line? Harsh? Yes--but that is the world of sales.

 

[spitt2000]

You have no idea what you are talking about. In my district top sales people have been moved to another area where it was less productive and then put on MPIP and then they are gone. We are outright abusive to people now and the result will be that people with talent will refuse to be treated so poorly and the people who have no ability to leave will stay. In a few short years, we will only have the latter type of people here. Almost everyone I know is looking for emplyment elsewhere due to the abuse and humiliation they are forced to deal with and the punitive treatment we all receive such as numerous punitive conference calls, actions plans, cadence reports. I could spend three days a week on total BS adn then get yelled at for not selling. After they put people on MPIP even when they get off of the plan, they are using that as a tool to refuse their raise, or even take their MIP from them. We are a textbook case on how to abuse people.

 

[brownmonster]

You have no idea what you are talking about. In my district top sales people have been moved to another area where it was less productive and then put on MPIP and then they are gone. We are outright abusive to people now and the result will be that people with talent will refuse to be treated so poorly and the people who have no ability to leave will stay. In a few short years, we will only have the latter type of people here. Almost everyone I know is looking for emplyment elsewhere due to the abuse and humiliation they are forced to deal with and the punitive treatment we all receive such as numerous punitive conference calls, actions plans, cadence reports. I could spend three days a week on total BS adn then get yelled at for not selling. After they put people on MPIP even when they get off of the plan, they are using that as a tool to refuse their raise, or even take their MIP from them. We are a textbook case on how to abuse people.

And I thought this treatment had always been reserved for hourlies. Nice to seeing it moving up hill.

 

[hitman15]

You have no idea what you are talking about. In my district top sales people have been moved to another area where it was less productive and then put on MPIP and then they are gone. We are outright abusive to people now and the result will be that people with talent will refuse to be treated so poorly and the people who have no ability to leave will stay. In a few short years, we will only have the latter type of people here. Almost everyone I know is looking for emplyment elsewhere due to the abuse and humiliation they are forced to deal with and the punitive treatment we all receive such as numerous punitive conference calls, actions plans, cadence reports. I could spend three days a week on total BS adn then get yelled at for not selling. After they put people on MPIP even when they get off of the plan, they are using that as a tool to refuse their raise, or even take their MIP from them. We are a textbook case on how to abuse people.

I'm one of those ones that left due to the abuse, that and after 10 years with the company (all in management) I saw that I didn't want to be the type of manager that they wanted me to be. So I took my Master's degree in engineering an found a 20K raise in a bad economy w/UPS on my resume. I love my job now and actually have less stress and a better outlook on life in general.

 

[spitt2000]

That is what makes me mad. The good talent is leaving and everyone's pension and retirement will depend on those who were not able to find anything better. Reminds me of the joke about criminal trials resting on the decision of twelve people who were not even smart enough to get out of jury duty! It really is a shame.

 

[SignificantOwner]

That is what makes me mad. The good talent is leaving and everyone's pension and retirement will depend on those who were not able to find anything better. Reminds me of the joke about criminal trials resting on the decision of twelve people who were not even smart enough to get out of jury duty! It really is a shame.

The thing is, many that think they're in the useful and intelligent group really aren't.

 

[constructively dissatisfi]

The thing is, many that think they're in the useful and intelligent group really aren't.

And the ones who are DECIDING who is in the "useful and intelligent group" are usually not in it themselves.

 

[ddomino]

And I thought this treatment had always been reserved for hourlies. Nice to seeing it moving up hill.

I think Management has always been treated bad by those above them. It just didn't matter so much till those above still expected the same but took almost every incentive to do so away. IE: management now pays a large part of medical insurance.

 

[Catatonic]

I think Management has always been treated bad by those above them. It just didn't matter so much till those above still expected the same but took almost every incentive to do so away. IE: management now pays a large part of medical insurance.

I figured this all had something to do with IE.

 

[SignificantOwner]

And the ones who are DECIDING who is in the "useful and intelligent group" are usually not in it themselves.

Lol, exactly.

 

[negrosangre]

Today is the day!! Last to accept (or reject) SRP package for those who received offer. Then a 7 day recession period, and THEN things will start popping around here!!

 

[Cezanne]

Today is the day!! Last to accept (or reject) SRP package for those who received offer. Then a 7 day recession period, and THEN things will start popping around here!!

In other words, some will go out quietly, others will go kicking and screaming.

 

[negrosangre]

In other words, some will go out quietly, others will go kicking and screaming.

But 99% will have a smile on their face!! (Like me)

 

[RoyalFlush]

I'm one of those ones that left due to the abuse, that and after 10 years with the company (all in management) I saw that I didn't want to be the type of manager that they wanted me to be. So I took my Master's degree in engineering an found a 20K raise in a bad economy w/UPS on my resume. I love my job now and actually have less stress and a better outlook on life in general.

We've had number of managers leave and go on to jobs with better pay, benefits and working conditions. I'm glad to see there is career "life" after UPS. UPS is bringing the compensation down to industry standard. People are not going to put up with the UPS "way above industry standard" demands for industry standard pay. This applies to all levels and positions. It's already evident that management people are much less willing to make the sacrifices they once did. You "get what you pay for applies." Less pay and benefits will get less dedication, less effort and less results.