Orion Compliance (Work as directed)

[By The Book]

Even if they did change my pickup compliance times...which they wont....following ORION's plan will not allow me to complete them within the 15 minute time frame. ORION's calculations for the time it takes to actually do the work are inaccurate, and my ORION solution involves traveling down nonexistent roads or roads that are closed to the public or passable only with a 4 wheel drive vehicle. A 3 year old blind kid with a crayon could draw a better trace on a map than ORION does for my route.

728ups and I simply have different solutions to the same problem. 728ups follows ORION and then notifies management of any problems that may result so that they can give him permission to stop following ORION if needed. I don't waste time asking for permission; I have notified my management ahead of time that my ORION is irrevocably flawed and that I have no intention of following it. If they instruct me otherwise, I will then ask them to put it in writing that I wont be disciplined for the service failures that will inevitably result; they will not do this; so we will be back to square one. Either way, the problem is on them not me.

Even if they did change my pickup compliance times...which they wont....following ORION's plan will not allow me to complete them within the 15 minute time frame. ORION's calculations for the time it takes to actually do the work are inaccurate, and my ORION solution involves traveling down nonexistent roads or roads that are closed to the public or passable only with a 4 wheel drive vehicle. A 3 year old blind kid with a crayon could draw a better trace on a map than ORION does for my route.

728ups and I simply have different solutions to the same problem. 728ups follows ORION and then notifies management of any problems that may result so that they can give him permission to stop following ORION if needed. I don't waste time asking for permission; I have notified my management ahead of time that my ORION is irrevocably flawed and that I have no intention of following it. If they instruct me otherwise, I will then ask them to put it in writing that I wont be disciplined for the service failures that will inevitably result; they will not do this; so we will be back to square one. Either way, the problem is on them not me.

Soberups, it sounds like you have a pretty good grasp on Orion. I personally had about 3 roads Orion kept having me use as my travel path. Fortunately for me, the day my Orion trainer was on car they had me routed to go down one of them. I didn't do it and explained why long story short I beat their solution for that day. They closed off that road as I don't use it at all and that made that part of my day flow like edd which is pretty good. Knowing that I went to the Oms who does the mapping and plugged in 2 addresses and had them close off those roads as travel paths and many more stops in the country make sense on Orion. This may help what may be screwing up some of your day. Lmk if it helps.

 

[brown bomber]

I was a single DAD,..raising my 2 daughters....they both graduated high school, summa cum laude..both graduated college on schedule and under budget...they were in 4th and 6th grade when their Mother passed away...it can be done

 

[brown bomber]

that's for you Dave

 

[The Other Side]

i'm quoting my management team as far as what we have been told we are and are not responsible for my good fellow.Things may be different where you are ,but in my little spot of the wonderful world of UPS this is what WE have to deal with.

With all due respect Article 37 has the phrase
"The parties agree that the principle of a fair day's work for a fair day's pay shall be observed at all times and employees shall perform their duties in a manner that best represents the Employer's interest."

THIS has been interpreted at my local as "Working as Directed" i.e it isnt up for hourlies to decide what the "best interests" are to be. ( and in real life as on this forum MANY drivers have a really hard time letting go of the concept that THEY know what the best interests are)


As far as your concern that i dont know what my function as a driver is, I shall have to think you are in a time warp and still think it's 1980 something and think you are still entrusted with making decisions . The times have changed my good man,and I am changing with them.

Well, it appears, at least according to you, that your "local" cant read either.

the sentence from article 37 is called a PREAMBLE.


pre·am·ble
/ˈpriˌæm

bəl, priˈæm-/ appendix, conclusion, afterword, closing.
2.
the introductory part of a statute, deed, or the like, stating the reasons and intent of what follows.
3.
a preliminary or introductory fact or circumstance: His childhood in the slums was a preamble to a life of crime.
4.
( initial capital letter ) the introductory statement of the U.S. constitution, setting forth the general principles of American government and beginning with the words, “We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union. …”

"reasons and intent" 728.

Your "local" somehow defines this PREAMBLE as "working as directed" but this goes to show nothing more than the ignorance of people holding union office.

"and employees shall perform their duties in a manner that best represents the Employer's interest"
After the word "AND" is called a CAVEAT.

In other words, its a WARNING. A warning to employees that the decisions "they" make on the road suit the employers best interests and NOT an instruction by a supervisor.

Your supervisor could "direct" you to RUN all the red lights for the day. According to YOU and your LOCAL, you simply must comply because you do not make decisions or are to be held responsible because you are simply directed to do something.

You leave the building, you run all the red lights on the way to the route and you make it 25 times without crashing, but on the 26th time, you crash into a car killing a family of 4.

Do you think for one second, that your "excuse" will be.. "i was only working as directed"????

No matter what they "told" you, you "MUST" , not maybe, or partially, or sometimes, or never, ..."PERFORM YOUR DUTIES in a manner that BEST represents the employers interests."

Obviously, at least I hope so for your sake, you understand this.

This PREABLE gives you an INSTRUCTION, a written DIRECTIVE how to PERFORM your duties as a package driver.

In the matter of the red light, you would be prosecuted for the action, fired and potentially sued for following a "counter directive" from your supervisor.

ITS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY bro whether you want to admit it or not. Just because you have some working at the local level giving you BAD advice doesnt make it true.

If the teamsters and the company wanted to specifically indicate what an employee was suppose to do on the road while being "unsupervised", and that included being told how to perfom, then the words "WORKING AS DIRECTED" would have been included.

But, as you have already agreed to, those words DONT EXIST in our contract, so why do you keep trying to insert them into the conversation.

We can agree, ORION BLOWS A$S, and its costing the company more money than it is saving, but to say we dont have an option is silly at best.

The company is constantly making rules that go against other rules. Like SOBER pointed out, the company cant discipline you for violating one rule because another rule caused you to create a "forced error".

This is why the preamble to article 37 is written is such a manner. The drivers of package cars and feeder trucks have to be the person who makes the BEST decision at the time that it has to be made.

No desk jockey can possibly make a decision for a person on the road in the split second it needs to be made.

Please try to understand where we are coming from. We dont like ORION either. We just dont want to fight with it.

We dont want to manipulate it either to give a false positive to the company that it is working either.

Maybe, if enough drivers complain loud enough, someone at corporate will hear us, and take another look at this disaster before its implemented across the country and millions more spent creating the largest operating disaster since the great mexico experiment that cost UPS millions.

TOS.

 

[toonertoo]

So today I am told we spent hours on this and you didnt even deliver the first 40 stops in trace, yet I was 89.9 in compliance. So everyone is p'oed at me. The center manager says he doesnt have time for this right now, I shrug my shoulders, throw my hands up and say OK. They have 10 to 15 businesses loaded to do after 5, that is what I was asking, when I was abruptly shut off.
I got the very evil eye, and I didnt like it much, so I just stared back. They want it fixed, yet I cant help they spent three hours on it and its no better. What they dont seem to understand and should is these businesses have to be built in to my before 5 work, and when they are not I have to build them in, which in my world says I have too much commercial. This thing sucks.

 

[wayfair]

Orion thinks you should be leaving the building at least 20 minutes before you really do. Sometimes earlier. The program should allow an extra couple miles for the daily misload(s).

was told a couple weeks ago to not get EDD until leaving the building, not when you punch in... it's supposed to help the "solution"

 

[728ups]

Well, it appears, at least according to you, that your "local" cant read either.

the sentence from article 37 is called a PREAMBLE.


pre·am·ble
/ˈpriˌæm

bəl, priˈæm-/ appendix, conclusion, afterword, closing.
2.
the introductory part of a statute, deed, or the like, stating the reasons and intent of what follows.
3.
a preliminary or introductory fact or circumstance: His childhood in the slums was a preamble to a life of crime.
4.
( initial capital letter ) the introductory statement of the U.S. constitution, setting forth the general principles of American government and beginning with the words, “We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union. …”

"reasons and intent" 728.

Your "local" somehow defines this PREAMBLE as "working as directed" but this goes to show nothing more than the ignorance of people holding union office.

"and employees shall perform their duties in a manner that best represents the Employer's interest"
After the word "AND" is called a CAVEAT.

In other words, its a WARNING. A warning to employees that the decisions "they" make on the road suit the employers best interests and NOT an instruction by a supervisor.

Your supervisor could "direct" you to RUN all the red lights for the day. According to YOU and your LOCAL, you simply must comply because you do not make decisions or are to be held responsible because you are simply directed to do something.

You leave the building, you run all the red lights on the way to the route and you make it 25 times without crashing, but on the 26th time, you crash into a car killing a family of 4.

Do you think for one second, that your "excuse" will be.. "i was only working as directed"????

No matter what they "told" you, you "MUST" , not maybe, or partially, or sometimes, or never, ..."PERFORM YOUR DUTIES in a manner that BEST represents the employers interests."

Obviously, at least I hope so for your sake, you understand this.

This PREABLE gives you an INSTRUCTION, a written DIRECTIVE how to PERFORM your duties as a package driver.

In the matter of the red light, you would be prosecuted for the action, fired and potentially sued for following a "counter directive" from your supervisor.

ITS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY bro whether you want to admit it or not. Just because you have some working at the local level giving you BAD advice doesnt make it true.

If the teamsters and the company wanted to specifically indicate what an employee was suppose to do on the road while being "unsupervised", and that included being told how to perfom, then the words "WORKING AS DIRECTED" would have been included.

But, as you have already agreed to, those words DONT EXIST in our contract, so why do you keep trying to insert them into the conversation.

We can agree, ORION BLOWS A$S, and its costing the company more money than it is saving, but to say we dont have an option is silly at best.

The company is constantly making rules that go against other rules. Like SOBER pointed out, the company cant discipline you for violating one rule because another rule caused you to create a "forced error".

This is why the preamble to article 37 is written is such a manner. The drivers of package cars and feeder trucks have to be the person who makes the BEST decision at the time that it has to be made.

No desk jockey can possibly make a decision for a person on the road in the split second it needs to be made.

Please try to understand where we are coming from. We dont like ORION either. We just dont want to fight with it.

We dont want to manipulate it either to give a false positive to the company that it is working either.

Maybe, if enough drivers complain loud enough, someone at corporate will hear us, and take another look at this disaster before its implemented across the country and millions more spent creating the largest operating disaster since the great mexico experiment that cost UPS millions.

TOS.

we'll have to agree ORION blows and we all deal with it in a different manner. you manner woulnd't work for me, nor would mine work for you.
At any rate it's bloody classic watching the management team pull their hair out every morning over the reports. It really does make my morning tea taste a bit sweeter

 

[slappyhappy]

We've had Orion for about 4 years, we were one of the 3 original test sites in the country. After a while Orion gets to be one of the "flavors of the week", just like all the other BS. It pops up from management every 4-5 months. Run it for a week and then you can go back to doing it your way.

 

[soberups]

So today I am told we spent hours on this and you didnt even deliver the first 40 stops in trace, yet I was 89.9 in compliance. So everyone is p'oed at me. The center manager says he doesnt have time for this right now, I shrug my shoulders, throw my hands up and say OK. They have 10 to 15 businesses loaded to do after 5, that is what I was asking, when I was abruptly shut off.
I got the very evil eye, and I didnt like it much, so I just stared back. They want it fixed, yet I cant help they spent three hours on it and its no better. What they dont seem to understand and should is these businesses have to be built in to my before 5 work, and when they are not I have to build them in, which in my world says I have too much commercial. This thing sucks.

Follow your ORION trace 100%.

If you follow ORION and get to the business stops after 5:00 and they are closed, sheet them as "missed" and bring them back.

Repeat as necessary until your management team is able to understand.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

was told a couple weeks ago to not get EDD until leaving the building, not when you punch in... it's supposed to help the "solution"

Did you mean to say "just before leaving the building"?

 

[joeboodog]

was told a couple weeks ago to not get EDD until leaving the building, not when you punch in... it's supposed to help the "solution"

Makes sense. If you load it just before you leave you won't have time to check the delivery order and won't have time to let them know how crappy the solution is.

 

[joeboodog]

So today I am told we spent hours on this and you didnt even deliver the first 40 stops in trace, yet I was 89.9 in compliance. So everyone is p'oed at me. The center manager says he doesnt have time for this right now, I shrug my shoulders, throw my hands up and say OK. They have 10 to 15 businesses loaded to do after 5, that is what I was asking, when I was abruptly shut off.
I got the very evil eye, and I didnt like it much, so I just stared back. They want it fixed, yet I cant help they spent three hours on it and its no better. What they dont seem to understand and should is these businesses have to be built in to my before 5 work, and when they are not I have to build l in, which in my world says I have too much commercial. This thing sucks.

They should never schedule any delivery for after 5:00! The only time we should have stops after 5:00 is November/December. Now you are lucky if you only have an hours worth of work after 5:00.

 

[cosmo1]

was told a couple weeks ago to not get EDD until leaving the building, not when you punch in... it's supposed to help the "solution"

I only had three weeks of ORION before I retired. I actually asked to be the first "live" route just so I could see what the big deal was (and, by that point, I didn't give a flying leap at a rolling doughnut anymore). In my center, at least, you couldn't even download EDD until the sort was down and the ORION solution was done.

Did you mean to say "just before leaving the building"?

Yes, Dave, just before leaving. Your world will be shaken to it's core when it comes to the BOG.

 

[browniehound]

Ok, I've read all the posts under the ORION topic and 99% of them are negative. I've been on ORION for almost 1 year and I think it STINKS. I mean it makes NO SENSE. Everyday I look at it and say to myself "Why or in what world or to whom would this EVER make sense to or deliver that way?" and I shut it off.

So here is my question: the powers that be at UPS and all its supervisors and all the ORION guys must all see what we're seeing, right? And they think this ORION is good for the company?
Are they stupid? doubt it. Are they ignorant? maybe. Are they in denial? I bet they are.

Who knows, maybe they are so brainwashed that they actually believe its the best way to run the route.

All I know is, its certainly not.

 

[selfcancelsignal]

So today I am told we spent hours on this and you didnt even deliver the first 40 stops in trace, yet I was 89.9 in compliance. So everyone is p'oed at me. The center manager says he doesnt have time for this right now, I shrug my shoulders, throw my hands up and say OK. They have 10 to 15 businesses loaded to do after 5, that is what I was asking, when I was abruptly shut off.
I got the very evil eye, and I didnt like it much, so I just stared back. They want it fixed, yet I cant help they spent three hours on it and its no better. What they dont seem to understand and should is these businesses have to be built in to my before 5 work, and when they are not I have to build them in, which in my world says I have too much commercial. This thing sucks.

From continually reading your posts about ORION, it's sad to see how little your mgmt. team seems to care about your effort in trying to fix the problems you're having with it & your route. Grievance for harassment time!


Sent while driving from my flip phone via T9 word.

 

[The Blackadder]

So today I am told we spent hours on this and you didnt even deliver the first 40 stops in trace, yet I was 89.9 in compliance. So everyone is p'oed at me. The center manager says he doesnt have time for this right now, I shrug my shoulders, throw my hands up and say OK. They have 10 to 15 businesses loaded to do after 5, that is what I was asking, when I was abruptly shut off.
I got the very evil eye, and I didnt like it much, so I just stared back. They want it fixed, yet I cant help they spent three hours on it and its no better. What they dont seem to understand and should is these businesses have to be built in to my before 5 work, and when they are not I have to build them in, which in my world says I have too much commercial. This thing sucks.

Could not agree more, I have a school on my route and for some reason orion takes that single stop and puts it at the end of my day. It has me doing all the house stops around it at about 3. But the school I wants me to deliver after 6.

When you try to explain this mgmt. will tell you that you still have to make comment so you one of the breaks you are allowed. Ok fine I use a break to fix your mistake. But they are unable to fix what they know is a mistake.

 

[CharleyHustle]

But they are unable to fix what they know is a mistake.

Very new to the ORION game here. Just seems to me there are more things at play than miles reduction. Maybe the sups know that the more the computer takes over dispatching and running the center the less need there is for them and so they have no vested interest in seeing it succeed.

 

[toonertoo]

From continually reading your posts about ORION, it's sad to see how little your mgmt. team seems to care about your effort in trying to fix the problems you're having with it & your route. Grievance for harassment time!


Sent while driving from my flip phone via T9 word.

Yes I have really tried to get it set up so I can handle it, since I am forced to do it.
It is a freight route, but they are trying to get me enough work, to where 40% may be more business, off other routes, and resi delivery I have never seen.

On their paper, and in their bean heads, it would all work, if I would cut it to the mileage they give me and do 18 stops an hour. In their world there is never a detour, a package you couldnt find earlier because of the brick out situation. Never a dock you cannot access, or someone closed for lunch between noon and one. But they will not tell me what to do in those situations. So I just make a deision, that seems to be my downfall. I still try to use common sense. That is not figured into a day.

 

[Indecisi0n]

I guess you can't teach old dogs new tricks.

 

[soberups]

Yes I have really tried to get it set up so I can handle it, since I am forced to do it.
It is a freight route, but they are trying to get me enough work, to where 40% may be more business, off other routes, and resi delivery I have never seen.

On their paper, and in their bean heads, it would all work, if I would cut it to the mileage they give me and do 18 stops an hour. In their world there is never a detour, a package you couldnt find earlier because of the brick out situation. Never a dock you cannot access, or someone closed for lunch between noon and one. But they will not tell me what to do in those situations. So I just make a deision, that seems to be my downfall. I still try to use common sense. That is not figured into a day.

You really do need to consider filing an Art 37 grievance for over-supervision and harassment.

From the sound of things, it doesn't matter what you do or how hard you try, they are going to bitch and whine at you anyway. Anything you do to look better on one of their reports will automatically cause you to look worse on a different one. You cant win. At some point, enough is enough and they need to leave you alone and go and find someone else to bother.

You are trying to get a delivery route done in the real world. They are trying to generate a metric on a report. Be grateful for the fact that at least your job matters.