O's 401k disaster ?

diesel96

Well-Known Member
Here is where you read carefully......
It says ....According to US News & World Report along with Congressional Records, a House subcommittee is considering .......
See that word CONSIDERING? That would be your clue that this is not actually in proposal yet. The word appears in the article several times.
The rest of the story goes on to tell us what the result of such a plan would be. This is not fear mongering. Fear mongering would be a story that said this was definitely going to happen.
Try reading the entire article before you start accusing me of fear mongering.

If this proposal helped to promote proposals to improve 401k plans, then great. I'm all for that. As long as the govt keeps their grubby hands off of MY money, I will be happy.

I didn't see this posted anywhere else. Is anyone else aware of this proposal to stab us in the back?


Obama & Democrats Move To Seize 401(k) Plans!

Forgive me, I didn't mean fear mongering, I meant to say panic mongering. Doesn't change the fact that the title of this thread (O's 401k disaster ? ) raises fear and panic which BTW your bold print statements suggest it also. You might be able to send shrivers down the spines of your fellow Repulican base but knowledge shields us from news and blog manipulation.
The committee was hearing as many views as it could find in order not to possibly miss something that might make sense before deliberating on any course of action at all.
Arbitrarily selecting one of the persons testifying with a view and drawing all sorts of imaginary consequences as a done deal is panic mongering.
 

brett636

Well-Known Member
Trust me guys and look around you. My 401-k has now lost over $45,000.00 and this was under the Republican George W Bush.
I'm looking forward to Jan 20. Things can only get better. I'm tired of losing money.

And? How close are you to retirement? Last time I checked my 401k is down some 25% but I couldn't be more pleased with it. The law of dollar cost averaging means that when the market rebounds once we get another republican President my 401k will increase in value like never before. The purpose of investing in stocks is to buy low and sell high. Sometimes our emotions get the best of us when it comes to these times, but more wealth will be made from this market than came out of the record high stock market that we saw a little over a year ago.

I don't want the government to take my 401k. I can manage mine quite well thank you and will see great returns in the future. This is assuming Nanny Pelosi and daddy obama let me keep it. :rolleyes:
 

wyobill

Well-Known Member
I had read this too. Funny how discussions like these are glossed over by the mainstream media during election time. When the economy recovers, do we want 12-15% returns on our investments or 3%? A no brainer there. The government has never ran any program successfully, why people want politicians in charge of anything confounds me. I guess they don't understand what the word "freedom" really means, too many people are unable to think for themselves.

The same goes for unions running pension plans. Give them 10 dollars and they will spend 4 and leave you 6:happy2:
 

chev

Nightcrawler
Forgive me, I didn't mean fear mongering, I meant to say panic mongering. Doesn't change the fact that the title of this thread (O's 401k disaster ? ) raises fear and panic which BTW your bold print statements suggest it also. You might be able to send shrivers down the spines of your fellow Repulican base but knowledge shields us from news and blog manipulation.
The committee was hearing as many views as it could find in order not to possibly miss something that might make sense before deliberating on any course of action at all.
Arbitrarily selecting one of the persons testifying with a view and drawing all sorts of imaginary consequences as a done deal is panic mongering.

Sorry, it was a cut-n-paste from an article. Not my choice of font.
I'll make sure to tone it down just for you next time.:rolleyes2:
 

mikestrek

Well-Known Member
It's funny you mention this as we had one of our local college students receive a visit from the Secret Service for a cartoon he drew of Obama.
INTERESTING. I read the article, Didn't see the pic but got the gist of it. I completly suport the secret service. I agree 100%. If someone is foolish enough to post photos of an assasination, Even in a joking way, Or leave comments to insagate an assasination. You should be contacted by the secrest service.

All fun aside, I don't care if it's on Bush or Obama. You may not be a KKK member or a Skin head but if you post something like that don't be surprised if your contacted by the Secret Servise.

I'm just glad to see our Secret Service hard at work and doing there job to protect our U.S. President. :happy-very:
 

chev

Nightcrawler
While I don't care for Pelosi's politics, I never though she was stupid!

Hoaxter, that was not directed at Pelosi. It was about the woman that stated she no longer had to worry about putting gas in her car or her mortgage all because obama was elected.
 

tieguy

Banned
Hoaxter, that was not directed at Pelosi. It was about the woman that stated she no longer had to worry about putting gas in her car or her mortgage all because obama was elected.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that voted for Obama believing something similar. One of my feeder drivers stated it will be nice paying less for gas. Well Duh I believe that is already happening.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Unfortunately there are a lot of people that voted for Obama believing something similar. One of my feeder drivers stated it will be nice paying less for gas. Well Duh I believe that is already happening.


And it is happening because the gas bubble was just as phoney as the stock market bubble, the housing bubble & the credit bubble.

You wont see gas get over 3 bucks for years.

Obama will release oil from strategic reserves before the oil companies gouge us again.

Hopefully, the oil companies made enough to hold them over for 16 years before another republican might take the white house and let them screw the american public again.
 

1989

Well-Known Member
And it is happening because the gas bubble was just as phoney as the stock market bubble, the housing bubble & the credit bubble.

You wont see gas get over 3 bucks for years.

Obama will release oil from strategic reserves before the oil companies gouge us again.

Hopefully, the oil companies made enough to hold them over for 16 years before another republican might take the white house and let them screw the american public again.


We haven't had a stock market bubble since 2000 with an excepion of a few stocks with pe's over 60. Just because stocks go lower, that doesn't mean there was a bubble. Oil is down because of fears of a global recession. Let me guess that's because of Bush too.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
From LRC Blog: http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/023918.html

November 10, 2008

More on the Government Strengthening and Protecting Confiscating Your 401k

Posted by Karen DeCoster at November 10, 2008 11:59 AM


It did make the mainstream news. Karen McMahan, the author, makes a really important point:
Currently, 401(k) plans allow Americans to invest pretax money and their employers match up to a defined percentage, which not only increases workers’ retirement savings but also reduces their annual income tax. The balances are fully inheritable, subject to income tax, meaning workers pass on their wealth to their heirs, unlike Social Security. Even when they leave an employer and go to one that doesn’t offer a 401(k) or pension, workers can transfer their balances to a qualified IRA.
Then there's this:
...All workers would have 5 percent of their annual pay deducted from their paychecks and deposited to the GRA. They would still be paying Social Security and Medicare taxes, as would the employers. The GRA contribution would be shared equally by the worker and the employee. Employers no longer would be able to write off their contributions. Any capital gains would be taxable year-on-year. ...With a GRA, workers could bequeath only half of their account balances to their heirs, unlike full balances from existing 401(k) and IRA accounts. For workers who die after retiring, they could bequeath just their own contributions plus the interest but minus any benefits received and minus the employer contributions.
The government will try to pass this off as a program to benefit the poor and middle class. They will use class envy - target the "rich" - to try and get the masses on board with the confiscation. One of the main proponents of this mass confiscation and redistribution said:
In a radio interview with Kirby Wilbur in Seattle on Oct. 27, 2008, Ghilarducci explained that her proposal doesn’t eliminate the tax breaks, rather, “I’m just rearranging the tax breaks that are available now for 401(k)s and spreading — spreading the wealth.” ...Another justification for Ghilarducci’s plan is to eliminate investment risk. In her testimony, Ghilarducci said, “humans often lack the foresight, discipline, and investing skills required to sustain a savings plan.” She cited the 2004 HSBC global survey on the Future of Retirement, in which she claimed that “a third of Americans wanted the government to force them to save more for retirement.” [My note: She lied, because the author reports that the "survey actually reported was that 33 percent of Americans wanted the government to “enforce additional private savings,” a vastly different meaning than mandatory government-run savings."]
The insane crackpot, Ghilarducci, said that “humans often lack the foresight, discipline, and investing skills required to sustain a savings plan.” Therefore, this Communist-Elitist Pig will make your decisions for you. Robert Greenstein, another social engineering Communist, and executive director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, says that there is no reason whatsoever that people who pay no income tax should get *no tax incentives* at all. By the very definition of "tax incentive," that statement makes a mockery of the fact that words actually have meanings. The propaganda is starting to fly, and these are the agents who will help spread the envy and filth (and your money). Then Greenstein adds:
“Moving to refundable tax credits for promoting socially worthwhile activities would be an important step toward enhancing progressivity in the tax code in a way that would improve economic efficiency and performance at the same time,” Greenstein said...
If you can really stand it, go to the part of the article with the headline "Income and Wealth Redistribution." The democrats are making it very clear that they want to promote and move forward with a very progressive, "spread the wealth," redistributionist agenda. Lastly, for all the libertarians in the blogosphere who suggested they supported an Obama presidency as the "far better of the two evils" because he represented some hope for quasi-libertarian changes, here are some snippets from a 2001 interview with Brack Obama.
Should Sen. Barack Obama win the presidency, congressional Democrats might have stronger support for their “spreading the wealth” agenda. On Oct. 27, the American Thinker posted a video of an interview with Obama on public radio station WBEZ-FM from 2001. In the interview, Obama said, “The Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society.” The Constitution says only what “the states can’t do to you. Says what the Federal government can’t do to you,” and Obama added that the Warren Court wasn’t that radical.
Although in 2001 Obama said he was not “optimistic about bringing major redistributive change through the courts,” as president, he would likely have the opportunity to appoint one or more Supreme Court justices.
“The real tragedy of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court focused that I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change,” Obama said. end of blog.

About the blogger: Karen De Coster is a Certified Public Accountant, has an MA in Economics, and works in finance and accounting. See her website and her blog. She drove the same GMC truck for 14.5 years until the engine pooped out, and she buys Brie and sushi at Wal-Mart. Her house is not an investment. She does go coupon shopping at Bath & Body Works, but she does not capitalize skin care products on her balance sheet.

And you thought all libertarians were ugly geeky looking white guys! :happy-very:
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
You wont see gas get over 3 bucks for years.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. With all the recent influx of money into the economy and more sure to come, at some point this could create inflation pressures, some suggest hyper-inflation, and that $3 a gallon will look cheap. Recently, I paid under $2 a gallon and I thought I had won the lottery. :happy-very: For someone who use to walk the local highway picking up pop bottles and getting the deposit money to buy $.29 cent a gallon gasoline for his mini-bike, it seems almost unthinkable. But since the mid/late 60's and now, what is the real driving factor behind why gas is not $.29 a gallon but rather around $2 a gallon? You know the answer, it's inflation and what is the major factor on inflation? The printing of money and whose public policy dictates that occurance? Gov't! Gov't economic intervention.

BTW: Damn litter laws killed a goldmine of a business for us back in the day! I learned early to hate gov't intervention! LMAO!!!!!

Also keep this thought in mine as well. Federal debt is huge (no argument) and seems to just grow and grow with recent economic perils. Many people justify debt by gauging against GDP, which is a rather generally accepted practice, but here's where I see problems with that and making the Under $3 gas prediction as well.

Inflation itself actually changes the ratio of debt to GDP to a more favorable outlook. If a lender looks at you for the purpose of a loan (like they did in the good ole' days :wink2:) , one major factor is the ratio of income (your GDP if you will) to your total debt. If this factor is out of balance to the debt side, no loan. However, if you get a raise (income inflation if you will) the ratio will change for the good and the loan justified using this factor because the worth (GDP) to debt ratio is good in this respect. Now once the loan is secured, the ratio will change but it will be from the debt side and thus you either pay down the dbt or inflate the income side to adjust the ratio to again a more favorable comparison.

2 ways for gov't to get a raise. 1) the most obvious way is to raise taxes but that has implecations at election time, or did anyway. Both political parties however have seemed in years past to avoid this mechainsm.
2) The most evil and diabolical method of all taxation, the hidden tax known as inflation. http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul191.html This method also monetizes our children's future by capitalizing http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capitalize.asp debt under the illusion of national investment. Since Keynesian economics came to full fruit in the 20th century under central banking, this has been the preferred method for gov't to give itself a raise. This mechanism of inflating the money supply devalues the actual worth of the individual fiat currency in circulation or in other words, to maintain the cost of goods and services along with wages thus increases. As a result, GDP does go up but it's an inllationary illusion but in fairness, another help to GDP in recent years has been the technological advancement of business efficency. This technological feat does have limits and now it seems gov't action in relation to economic intervention has even outpaced it.

Some time ago as oil was rocketing up, the Saudi Royals commented on spector of what was happening and I've remembered those comments since they were made. They stated that the current (at this time) oil market was overdriven and that honest, rational pricing of oil using time tested means shows oil a barrel should be around $60 to $70 a barrel. Now this was said when oil was around $100 to $120 on the way up. Now we have oil at the $60 a barrel mark and pressures are to the downside more than up over global recession concerns as others rightly pointed out. As a result, there has been some talk of cutting oil output but so far we're moving along. However, as inflated money supplies start to factor in once global economies start to roll again, I'm not sure the balance can be maintained at that price level. Once monetary inflation steps in, the only way for oil to maintain a $60 a barrel price is to increase oil output production and there's no guarantee that will happen either.

I like the idea of not seeing $3 a gallon gas anymore or for a longtime but keynesian economics that we've embraced to the hilt along with economic historical fact and practice just suggest to make that kind of statement at this time is not the wise thing to do although emotionally it appeals. As to those who use GDP as a means to justify an economic summation, I agree on it's face it seems to win the day but once you begin to look at all factors (items they hope you won't look at) IMO, it just doesn't paint as rosey a picture.

I don't believe Bush destroyed the planet nor do I believe Obama will. Washington is it's own beast no matter who sits at the head table. I'm not convinced at this point Obama will confiscate all the 401k's as much fun as it is to try and paint that picture. It's not impossible once the snowball starts rolling downhill but for now it would be political suicide IMO. I do believe however that over the course of the last 100 to 150 years, (if not longer) there has been a slow detoriating process to all freedoms and liberties including economic freedom and I don't see that abating in any way no matter who won the most recent election. It can be fun playing the games of "cults of personalities" which we play when it comes to politics but the truth is, we'll get nowhere other than worse off if at some point we don't walk out of the WWE wrestling arena and into the stark night of reality and face the real world of what lay in front of us!

JMO.

BTW TOS: I hope you are right about the $3 a gallon prediction but I have to ask myself in the end, to get it, what will it ultimately cost me and especially my kids. You guys now have all the cards in your deck so it put up or shut up time now. You even have it better on the executive and legislative side than the republicans ever had. The ball's in your court now so it's all on you guys going forward. I know this won't sit well with many here and I say it a bit tongue in cheek but looking at all the neo-con lite Clinton retreads Obama is bringing in, I'm actually longing for an Obama who would have brought in Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers. :happy-very:

The republican party has given you a gift and is no longer a real factor on the national scene. Even now the process of jettisoning the Bush era has begun as this example from National Review doth suggest. http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjRmYmIzZTk3NTU1M2VjYWY3N2E3YmY1ZmY3MzI0Mzk=

It's now a wide open field for you guys so don't muck it up!

because like the snake that I am, you know I'm waiting in the weeds to bite!
:happy-very:
 
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