Pension Protection Act

[trickpony1]

Sawman,
I agree the DOT physicals are getting stricter.
Our famous government is gonna fix it so no one other than a 22 year old import from Mexico will be able to drive our trucks....at $6.00 dollars per hour.
I am curious why the sudden change in the DOT rules after all these years unless our famous company is romancing the government....wouldn't put it past them.

 

[sawman]

You said that right Trick!

 

[ok2bclever]

Sawman,

As a clerk I don't have to take the DOT physicals anymore and wasn't aware of them being more critical as I haven't had any drivers complain about it to me (in my steward capacity).

I have wondered how UPS was going to deal with 60+ year old drivers when the 40 year olds are dropping like flies to accumulative back, knee, hip, shoulder, wrist, ankle injuries.

The workforce is going to slow down like a rusty worn out machine over the next decade as it stands now in my opinion.

I am hoping UPS shoots for financial incentives such as extra lump sum retirement bonuses to get rid of us old guys rather than they decide to just shoot (us).

Bob, your name (if real) doesn't ring any bells.

The few at work that I know read the brown cafe all know my moniker.

Yeah, UPS's wonderful decision regarding the medical was the killer for me.

I'd be gone now also if they'd put their money where their mouth has always been about being so concerned about "their people".

That actually makes the second likeliest place they could shoot for regarding incentives to get rid of the old workers.

 

[trickpony1]

The irony of my statement is I got my information from a knowledgeable, but disinterested, third party who happens to be an attorney and former Dept of Public Safety investigator, so don't attribute it to the rumblings of some disgruntled feeder drivers.
GUARD YOUR DOT CARD PEOPLE!
It is also my understanding that our company has contracted with a third party company (to shield UPS from litigation) to AUDIT (which means "find something wrong") with the driver's medical records. One of our drivers has already had his DOT card jerked. My source is very knowledgeable so don't flip this off.
Watch what you say to the company quack that does your physical.

 

[ok2bclever]

Good to know Trick, thanks for the word.

 

[my2cents]

Just downloaded the newest Summary Annual Report for the New England Fund. The information in the report is already 9-10 months out of date. The SAR was created for June 2005 using data for the period October 1, 2003 thru September 30, 2004. This is one of positive areas the Pension Protection Act addresses, as disclosures will be more timely. I believe the legislation will require disclosure within a 1-3 month time frame. A definite improvement in this area, IMO.

 

[ups79]

sawman:I have mentioned this before, but I will try to get you to understand this again. Not all contracts are negotitated between the international and UPS. Some are settled between the local and UPS. Such is ours. Knowing that, it might be that over several contracts, these locals have settled for UPS to put more moneys in the pension plans and less monies in yearly wages during the lenghts of the contracts. The drivers merely settled for less money upfront inorder to have more at retirement.

 

[ok2bclever]

ups79,

That would make sense, but I don't think it is actually the truth.

Every contract since we moved to National negotiations for the betterment of all, errr, excuse me, that's right Chicago didn't go along with that did they.

They stayed out of the National in a selfish,albeit effective (as selfish many times is at the cost of the majority) strategy.

Anyway, every contract since then we would hear how Chicago dragged out their negotiations until the national was settled and then would demand and settle a bit more.

I don't remember ever hearing of Chicago ever getting less than any faction of what was negotiated in the National and that includes regarding the wages.

On another note, your overt condenscending attitude regarding sawman continues to be despicable.

He is just another hourly trying to get the word out on something he believes in.

I don't necessarily go along with anything he is pushing, but that doesn't warrant the continous personal attacks you think you are qualified to give.

In my mind you are living in a glass house.

I understand you fear any changes to protect or save the thousands of less fortunate UPSer's pension throughout the rest of the USA because it might rock your own personal sweet retirement boat and why you would be against that, but this continued oafish personal attack on sawman is self demeaning and pathetic even if you don't seem to realize it.

 

[sawman]

OK2,
Thanks for the regards!
Also, I would like to add a personal statement.
Unlike many of our fellow workers, I do not follow the Teamsters blindly and likewise I do not and will not follow the APWA blindly. While I do support the APWA and there efforts, I am open to any and all avenues that would serve to better our positions, pensions, and futures. I would be willing to support any movement that can do these things. The biggest problem I know of at this point is that there are to many UPS employees willing to follow the Teamsters blindly because, I guess, that is what they know. A comfort zone so to speak.

 

[ok2bclever]

Actually, I don't think it has anything to do with how they feel about the Teamsters.

I think the vast majority of employees are too mentally lazy (not a nice word, but I cannot think of a more accurate one) to use their minds, teach themselves what is going on and get off their duffs and try to do something about it.

Far easier to figure and hope that someone else will fix it for them, occasionally bitch about life being unfair and not lift one damn finger of their own to try to do anything about it.

 

[speeddemon]

ever point that all knowing finger at yourself?

 

[ok2bclever]

Sure, when it's due.

Not all knowing, but there are so many that can make one look positively brilliant just by comparison.

Sounds like you took that personal, speed.

Realize, it can only bother you if there is cause . . .

You ever personally lifted a finger besides typing here or bitching to fellow workers regarding the pension issue?

Went down to the hall and talked to the local union hierarchy, wrote a letter to the National, UPS, a senator?

Anything at all?

If so, you are a rarity.

I walk the walk, do you?

 

[speeddemon]

I hate to say it, but yes me and some of my fellow employees have. However, our local BA, and the office in Mobile rarely return our calls or answer our questions. We get no support from them in the form of grievance hearings. Clear cut cases are not won anymore. We see our BA maybe once every two months. And getting your senator or rep. to return your call, or answer a letter, is non existent. And as far as UPS goes, I have tried to talk with not only my center manager, but up to the district, and all I get is more overtime for a while to let me know not to cause a problem. You and I both know thier going to chase the stock bunny no matter what affect it has on thier employees. You see, in reality, corporations all across this country are killing it while in the process of squeezing out the last profits they can. It is on a large scale. COme on, you have to see it. So what to do? All you can do, is go to work and do your job by thier methods, be honest, work hard,and BITCH to keep your sanity because the avenues that are afforded to you for help, do not help anymore. And thats just the way they want it.

 

[ups79]

ok2b:who the heck died and made you sheriff. I trully believe, that you being a clerk, you have considerably more time then 'speeddemon' to research this item.

 

[sawman]

Speed,
I understand the bitching to let off steam, sometimes we all have to do that to keep our sanity, but just because a situation is the same everywhere does not make it right, nor does it make it unchangable. "Can't never could do nothing."

 

[ok2bclever]

Speed,

Standing "O" for you from me my man!

You are unfortunately in the minority regarding actually trying to do anything.

Why would your management be against you looking into your pension and trying to get some answers?

That seems a bit weird unless you are hitting them with accusations, but there are some really weird managers so anything is possible.

If my local union was as useless as yours seems to be I would be looking heavily into how to oust them at the next election.

As my2cents mentions, if every one did as much as you the action and results would not be as "useless".

It's the fact that the majority don't that allows the union and the company to basically ignore us.

ups79, if your gonna run your mouth with personal attacks on sawman consider me self elected because I will call you on it every single time.

Yeah, I am a lowly clerk with just tons of time on my hands.

Great excuse.

The key would be "excuse".

In my spare time from my easy clerk job I am the union steward, I have a second job (ya got to make the ends meet when you aren't making the big bucks of a driver), a scout leader and a family man with two kids active in year round sports, so I know about busy.

Also, I was a driver for sixteen years so don't whine to me about how drivers don't have any time to pick up a phone, write a letter, talk to officials, or just plain try to do something about his/her pension.

So, we are back to the lazy thing if you haven't moved a finger yet about your pension besides bitching to fellow employees.

That part doesn't involve you ups79 as I know you are one of the chosen ones who still have it good pension wise.

 

[wkmac]

It is my belief any switch to a personal account situation would mean a collapse of the fund that holds what I have already earned in the last 28 full-time years and perhaps a welch on the part-time pension credit as well.

I can understand your position and with 24 FT years myself I as well have a lot vested but under the current CS rules you and I can't leave till at leave age 57 and to get the max. benefit with the least payout for insurance it won't be till age 62'. You hold out hope that the system is salvageble and it may be under certain scenarios but I don't believe it is. I truly believe when a large bulk of baby boomers start hitting this fund combined with the demographics of a real shrinking support base it will collapse.

I see the fund as dead now, it's just the doctor has yet to signify the time and sign the death certificate. Letting the company and or union off the hook has nothing to do with it because they will get off the hook and we'll be left with absolutely nothing. If I have to work another 13 to 14 years which is the way it looks at present I'd rather work with a system I have much greater control over than the current one.

I hope I'm wrong and things turn around or at least stabilize and the fund remains fluid but I'm just not that hopeful as you are. Faced with what I believe then the smart alternative would be to get out of the burning house as it's coming to the ground and start planning and working towards building another but using different methods in order to not have the same fire again. JMO.

where is "badhab"?

I don't know either. Haven't seen him in a while myself. Hope he's just to busy enjoying retirement. I was talking to some folks at work the other day about him and asking if anyone has heard how he's doing. If I hear I'll let you know.

Sorry to be a little late responding to you guys but Dennis was a lot of fun. We ended up with a couple of inches of water in our basement so I was dealing with that the last couple of days. Based on my neighbor's rain collector from Saturday evening till yesterday morning we got almost 11 inches of rain with over 6 inches coming from late Sunday night to Monday morning. I just hope Emily goes to Mexico but looking at the projected path I don't think that is gonna happen. At least this time I've got a sump pump installed so the water in the basement won't present a problem.

 

[sawman]

WK,
I agree with you on the CS pension statue and with this new bill coming Jan. 3rd it is mandantory that any fund that is less than 65% funded must make cuts to benifits.
CS is 63% funded at this point, so more cuts are coming the first of the year!

 

[ok2bclever]

Sawman, that is not necessarily true.

The fund has been trending lightly towards higher fundedness (sp?) since the stock market down years and could easily be a tad over the critical numbers by next year if this years stock market continues to do decently.

The problem is the trend will not continue due to the baby boom generation attempting to retire in earnest over the next decade.

On that same note wkmac the baby boom generation problem is the key.

What is happening to CS is not a isolated event.

Because of the ongoing demographics in the USA (baby boom generation retirement wave) this problem will be not just an epidemic, but rather endemic and the USA will have to deal with it one way or another just like the other major finacial catastrophes that have occured in the last couple of decades.

How it's handled will be the key.

If handled badly the baby boom generation will have to gut their retirement investments rather violently which will make for probably the worst bear market the world has ever seen.

In that scenario private savings accounts (401ks, IRA, etc) will be negatively affected as well and it could very well become extremely ugly.

I expect the government will manage to minimize this by continuing to shift the problem to future generations as much as they can just like they always have.

 

[sawman]

OK2,
That may be true, but at this point CS is under the 65% goal post. Hoping you're right about it rising before the first of the year, but that is pure speculation.