Progression question

[upschuck]

Sorry but you are confusing me. You say you cant have the new rate because of Article 41 2C, but then you say you cant have the old rate if Article 41 Section 1 isnt there. Why would you need both?

You need 41.1 to get the GWI increases on Aug 1. You need 41.2(c) (old contract) to get yearly(progression) raises. If you never got progression raises, you would never get to top rate, and always be $10-$15 behind top rate.

 

[Quigley]

I'm not talking about the GWI. I'm talking about the sentence:
They will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accordance
with Article 41, Section 2 below.
This statement has nothing to do with the GWI.

 

[upschuck]

Let me illustrate it this way:
Assumption: John gained seniority Jan 2, 2013

New Contract Only 41.1 Only41.2(c)
Jan 2,2013 17.25 17.25 17.25
Aug 1 2013 17.95 17.95 17.25
Jan 2, 2014 18.45 17.95 18.45
Aug 1, 2014 19.15 18.65 18.45
Jan 2, 2015 20.75 18.65 20.75
Aug 1, 2015 21.45 19.35 20.75
Jan 2, 2016 1 million 19.35 1 million​

Having both gives driver a little higher rate at different times. At least that is how I read the contract.

Sorry, I guess forum doesn't keep all my spaces in, makes it kind of hard to read. Looked a lot better when I was typing it in

 

[Quigley]

You keep including the .70. Again the statement:
They will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accordance
with Article 41, Section 2 below.Has nothing to do with the GWI. I understand the GWI. So please bear with me. We agree about the GWI. My question to you is why the above statement which refers to progression rate not the GWI.

 

[upschuck]

My question to you is why the above statement which refers to progression rate not the GWI.

I don't understand your question.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

What?

 

[Quigley]

2013 seventy cents ($0.70)
2014 seventy cents ($0.70)
2015 seventy cents ($0.70)
2016 eighty cents ($0.80)
2017 one dollar ($1.00)

Full-time employees still in progression on the effective date of this
Master Agreement shall receive the above contractual increases.

They will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accordance
with Article 41, Section 2 below.

Notice how the contract is written. The first sentence refers to the ABOVE increase which is the GWI.

The second sentence refers to the BELOW wage rates.
Start $16.10$18.75

Seniority $17.25
$18.75

Twelve (12) months $18.45
$19.50

Twenty-four (24) months $20.75
$21.00
Thirty-six (36) months Top Rate$25.00

Forty-eight (48) months Top Rate

What I'm asking about is the second sentence which has to do with wage rate not the GWI

So my question is why inclede the second sentence if its already in Article41 Section2C

 

[upschuck]

The second sentence refers to the BELOW wage rates.

That wage progression refers to those who enter after Aug 1, 2013. For the wage progression for those who entered before Aug 1, 2013, go to last line of 41.2(c) which says

Article 41 Section 2(c) of the prior Agreement shall remain in effect for all employees in that progression as of the date of the ratification

 

[Quigley]

Did you not see this?

Full-time employees still in progression on the effective date of this
Master Agreement shall receive the above contractual increases.

They will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accordance
with Article 41, Section 2 below.


Read more: http://www.browncafe.com/community/threads/progression-question.354955/page-6#ixzz31L5PIzCF

 

[upschuck]

Did you not see this?
Full-time employees still in progression on the effective date of this
Master Agreement shall receive the above contractual increases.

Old contract guys get both(progression and GWI), but I think we agree on that.

 

[Quigley]

I guess I'm just not able to ask my question in a clear way so I give up. I do appreciate the debate.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Old contract guys get both(progression and GWI), but I think we agree on that.

But should a new driver, make more than a driver, who has been here for a year?

 

[upschuck]

But should a new driver, make more than a driver, who has been here for a year?

Should? no, but they will for a short time.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Should? no, but they will for a short time.

Thats a weird situation!

 

[upschuck]

Thats a weird situation!

That will only apply to one year guys on either side on Aug 1 2013. I think I figured that right, if not close to that number.

 

[Socrates]

Should? no, but they will for a short time.

Any idea then why I got the new-contract increase back in 2008, but not as a driver in 2013(14)? It says quite clearly:

Part-time employees still in progression on August 1, 2008 shall receive the above contractual increases and will be paid no less than what they are entitled to in accordance with the wage schedules in Article 22, Section 5 (b) below

If they're not using that "Article 41 Section 2(c) of the prior Agreement shall remain in effect" part strictly to communicate that those drivers get a 3 year progression - but they're also trying to use it to withhold the new driver wages, and to allow new drivers to make more than <2 year drivers - then that's a real scummy thing to do.

 

[upschuck]

Any idea then why I got the new-contract increase back in 2008, but not as a driver in 2013(14)? It says quite clearly:

PT employees get new contract wages, FT does not. Articles that pertain to both are quite different in their language.

If they're not using that "Article 41 Section 2(c) of the prior Agreement shall remain in effect" part strictly to communicate that those drivers get a 3 year progression - but they're also trying to use it to withhold the new driver wages, and to allow new drivers to make more than <2 year drivers - then that's a real scummy thing to do.

If it were only to keep the 3 years, then it would have stated that, but it says prior agreement shall remain in effect. I can't pick and chose which part of it I think it is referring to.

 

[Socrates]

It's messed up Union leadership didn't catch that.

The 2008 switch-over *lowered* pay, and extended the progression - it went from a percentage of top rate (70, 75, 80, etc.) to set per-dollar amounts. Locking people into the old contract meant they maintained their HIGHER wage than rookies.

The 2013 switch-over *raised* pay, and extended the progression - the starting rate went up $1.50, 1-year went up $1. Locking people into the old contract means they maintain their LOWER wages than rookies.

I can't believe they would not only agree to a longer progression, but simultaneously agree to screw over all the <3 year drivers at the same time. And then their glorious press release about enacting the contract, they don't mention that we get basically nothing except tier health care up until top rate kicks in. WTF?

 

[Scottyhawk]

Article 41 section 2 explains progression time.
Start before august 1st your in 3 year progression, August 1st or after 4 year progression.
article 41 section 1 explains pay.
If in progression, you will receive raise unless you received the progression raise between August 1st and date of ratification.
Back pay will be paid from August 1st until ratification or when you received your progression raise.

 

[kingOFchester]

But he doesnt stay at the old rates he goes to the new rates.. Take the above driver as example. June 2014 he goes to $19.50, Aug 1 2014 he goes to $20.20. Right there he goes to more then the new rate. June 2015 $21.00, Aug 2015 $21.70 again higher then the new rate.

I appreciate what you say you are doing for fellow drivers. But I question the validity of it do to the fact that you say "June 2014 he goes to $19.50, Aug 1 2014 he goes to $20.20." Our raises are spit. We do not go up .70 in August, but rather .35. Febuary we get another .35 raise.