PVD'S

[Union Power]

You are incorrect. The number one reason given when customers left UPS for other carriers were asked, was they were given a better price.
The number one reason for them returning, was service. UPS drivers are the best service providers in the industry,
hands down.

I leave open the possibility that present company is an exception.

I'm not your "company".

I was on a PAS deployment team for about 3 years. I can't remember how many routes I helped to trace and did the PAS 3 day implementation rides on. I never once heard of a requirement that every route deliver 30 resi stops before the first stop. If that is actually true in your center (and I really doubt that it is) then the folks that implemented your center were some really misguided individuals.

But it is clear that it really does not matter what I say. You are going to do nothing but demonize UPS management at every available opportunity no matter what you see or hear at this point. In the words of Col. Andy Tanner, "All that hate's gonna burn you up kid".

It's not hate. It's experience without exaggeration.
No matter what anyone else says you're going to call truth a lie when it pulls back the curtains on you management people.

We went from buying customers flowers for service failures (remember the video?) to the PAS failure that angered many customers in just a few months.
Fickle people.

One thing I do hate and that is how you know-it-alls blame the union work stoppage for your inability to reasonably bargain in 97.
It's a waste of time responding to your half truths.

 

[Union Power]

About 4 months.



Of course it did. That right there is Casey's best brilliance. He dragged his feet on providing a comprehensive counter proposal until he managed to get the company to pull out the "last, best, final". Then he used that as a club to bludgeon the company to the membership and in PR. It really was a masterful stroke. He himself fully understood that a last, best and final is merely legal language in labor law (google it if you don't want to believe me) and companies have often given a last best and final but then continued to negotiate and alter their position. But he knew most of the rank and file, and most of America did not understand that and they would think the company was stone walling. I fully believe he had no interest in a resolution without a strike, but I have mad respect for the way he was able to play UPS management like a fine tuned fiddle.



I can honestly say I have never in my life heard a car dealer say "Last, best, and final". That would be weird. Were you negotiating with him for a job at the dealership?

Just kidding. Honestly the answer is sort of. Yes, when they say something similar, you get up and 'start' to walk out. That is when they say "wait, wait, hold on a sec" and guess what? they move their position again. It is a negotiating tactic many use. As it was with UPS in '97. You probably missed out on a good deal you could have gotten on a car when you actually walking out. As you missed out on 2 weeks of pay you could have had in 97 had the union stayed at the table and gotten the exact same deal they wound up getting.

That last sentence was a joke. No it was an outright lie. The company got in trouble for not implementing the 22- 3 jobs if you remember correctly. So is this the deal that we would have gotten anyway? I would say you have selective memory unless you tend to lie continuously. The company offered us hmos, performance-based pay raises, and wanted nothing to do with a thousands of 22- 3 jobs the union was asking for. If you're going to post at least tell the truth. Some of us were there and remember. That's why the strike line held as well because you folks rarely tell the truth when it comes right down to the issues.

 

[Mugarolla]

I fully believe he had no interest in a resolution without a strike

Maybe, maybe not. I can't argue with that.

He himself fully understood that a last, best and final is merely legal language in labor law

Which UPS gave and then refused to come back to the table, which not many companies do. They were asking for a strike.

Yes, when they say something similar, you get up and 'start' to walk out. That is when they say "wait, wait, hold on a sec" and guess what? they move their position again. It is a negotiating tactic many use. As it was with UPS in '97

You are correct, but UPS never said "wait" and came back to the table. They refused. So much for your negotiating 101 theory.

It is undisputed fact the strike was called after only 3 days negotiating with the power to strike. The union could have continued negotiating and call a strike at any time.

The union tried to. The Union was sitting at the table asking UPS to sit down. UPS gave them the last, best and final and walked out.

The Union gave UPS a 3 day strike notice expecting UPS to sit back down and negotiate. They refused.

Extending the strike 3 days, a week, a month, would not have mattered. UPS had plenty of time to sit back down and negotiate. They refused.

Do you remember the famous quote by the then CEO James Kelly two months after the strike?

I will let you try and tell me, but from the quote he gave, he never planned on coming back to the table. UPS forced us to strike, no ands, ifs or buts.

Please insert quote here if you know it _______________________

 

[1989]

I didn't remember the strike starting on the 4th. I remember having a strike vote though. And getting a warning letter to return to work.

 

[Mugarolla]

I didn't remember the strike starting on the 4th. I remember having a strike vote though. And getting a warning letter to return to work.

We gave them a 3 day strike notice on August 1st and went on strike August 4th because UPS refused to come back to the bargaining table.

It was all on them. If they came back to the table, we would have not struck. At least not on the 4th.

 

[Brownslave688]

Common sense and something everyone in the real world understands.

Apparently not so obvious to cubicle geeks though.

They like to use the term now. Follow Orion but make smart business decisions.



Oh you mean do the job the same I did before you blew hundredskf millions on this crap?

 

[Indecisi0n]

Didn't read all of the thread but if little bully is delivering in his mother's mini van and T-bones another car will his car insurance cover him while he is using his personal vehicle commercially?

 

[Union Power]

Didn't read all of the thread but if little bully is delivering in his mother's mini van and T-bones another car will his car insurance cover him while he is using his personal vehicle commercially?

Better yet...
When the driver gets out of the pv with his/her browns on how much does that add to the lawsuit payout especially if he/she forgot to remove the open containers he/she emptied from the liquor store the night before from the pv.

 

[Union Power]

We gave them a 3 day strike notice on August 1st and went on strike August 4th because UPS refused to come back to the bargaining table.

It was all on them. If they came back to the table, we would have not struck. At least not on the 4th.

Don't confuse the ie experts with facts.
I believe they're in the wrong forum anyway.

 

[Indecisi0n]

When they get hurt can they sure UPS or are they considered independent contractors?

 

[Union Power]

Maybe, maybe not. I can't argue with that.



Which UPS gave and then refused to come back to the table, which not many companies do. They were asking for a strike.



You are correct, but UPS never said "wait" and came back to the table. They refused. So much for your negotiating 101 theory.



The union tried to. The Union was sitting at the table asking UPS to sit down. UPS gave them the last, best and final and walked out.

The Union gave UPS a 3 day strike notice expecting UPS to sit back down and negotiate. They refused.

Extending the strike 3 days, a week, a month, would not have mattered. UPS had plenty of time to sit back down and negotiate. They refused.

Do you remember the famous quote by the then CEO James Kelly two months after the strike?

I will let you try and tell me, but from the quote he gave, he never planned on coming back to the table. UPS forced us to strike, no ands, ifs or buts.

Please insert quote here if you know it _______________________

He wasn't expecting that people on this forum remembered the facts.
As usual, management is not believable.

 

[Brownslave688]

Didn't read all of the thread but if little bully is delivering in his mother's mini van and T-bones another car will his car insurance cover him while he is using his personal vehicle commercially?

Nope that would cost him another $400 or so.



Isn't the company supposed to provide all tools required to do the job.

 

[MyTripisCut]

I'm not giving packages to anyone in a personal vehicle unless they:

-Show me proof of paying union dues.

-Can recite the 5 seeing habits and 10 point commentary.

-Can recite and demonstrate the 8 keys to lifting and lowering.

-Recite the five keys to slips and falls.

-Is clean shaven and conforms to grooming standards.

-Has polishable, sturdy black or brown shoes.

-And finally, has telematics installed in their vehicle, to demonstrate that they can wear a seatbelt, and back at a speed of no more than 2.9 MPH.

Not really rocket science. Just needs to be able to be held to the same standards I am.

 

[Mugarolla]

He wasn't expecting that people on this forum remembered the facts.
As usual, management is not believable.

He still hasn't come up with the quote by James Kelly in the fall of 1997 proving UPS was not coming back to the bargaining table, until the strike actually forced them back.

 

[1989]

I'm not giving packages to anyone in a personal vehicle unless they:

-Show me proof of paying union dues.

-Can recite the 5 seeing habits and 10 point commentary.

-Can recite and demonstrate the 8 keys to lifting and lowering.

-Recite the five keys to slips and falls.

-Is clean shaven and conforms to grooming standards.

-Has polishable, sturdy black or brown shoes.

-And finally, has telematics installed in their vehicle, to demonstrate that they can wear a seatbelt, and back at a speed of no more than 2.9 MPH.

Not really rocket science. Just needs to be able to be held to the same standards I am.

What if they have a gun?

 

[Union Power]

What if they have a gun?

Give them the packages.

 

[brownIEman]

Maybe, maybe not. I can't argue with that.



Which UPS gave and then refused to come back to the table, which not many companies do. They were asking for a strike.



You are correct, but UPS never said "wait" and came back to the table. They refused. So much for your negotiating 101 theory.



The union tried to. The Union was sitting at the table asking UPS to sit down. UPS gave them the last, best and final and walked out.

The Union gave UPS a 3 day strike notice expecting UPS to sit back down and negotiate. They refused.

Extending the strike 3 days, a week, a month, would not have mattered. UPS had plenty of time to sit back down and negotiate. They refused.

Do you remember the famous quote by the then CEO James Kelly two months after the strike?

I will let you try and tell me, but from the quote he gave, he never planned on coming back to the table. UPS forced us to strike, no ands, ifs or buts.

Please insert quote here if you know it _______________________

I do not remember any 3 day strike notice. From my recollection, and articles I've read in the interim, Carey had the power to call a strike at anytime after the expiration of the old contract after July 31st. The negotiations were ongoing Aug 1st-3rd, mostly through the mediators, but they were continuing when Carey called for the strike to start at 12:00AM the start of Aug 4th. That is my recollection.

As to a famous Kelly quote, I remember him stating that the union could have gotten the deal they wound up with without going on strike and he thought they had a broader agenda. I am guessing that is not the one you are referring to. I also remember him giving an interview where he was asked if he felt pressured to acquiesce to end the strike once it started and he quipped that he was getting pressure from everywhere, customers, family, his dog. I am guessing that is not what you are referring to either.

As a side note, we obviously remember this major event from two very different perspectives. You seem to be in the union camp of the company was just being greedy and out to screw the employees anyway they could. Prior to the strike I had an opportunity to see if the company I worked for was a soulless monster or if it did care about its employees when I was involved in the process of consolidating a CSTC, the elimination of dozens of (non bargaining unit) jobs. Suffice to say, it performed that process in the manner of a company that did indeed care about its employees. Admittedly, other experiences years after the strike were much different...

 

[MyTripisCut]

What if they have a gun?

Give them the packages.

Take the package car.

 

[TearsInRain]

When they get hurt can they sure UPS or are they considered independent contractors?

they drag us off property first

 

[1989]

I do not remember any 3 day strike notice. From my recollection, and articles I've read in the interim, Carey had the power to call a strike at anytime after the expiration of the old contract after July 31st. The negotiations were ongoing Aug 1st-3rd, mostly through the mediators, but they were continuing when Carey called for the strike to start at 12:00AM the start of Aug 4th. That is my recollection.

As to a famous Kelly quote, I remember him stating that the union could have gotten the deal they wound up with without going on strike and he thought they had a broader agenda. I am guessing that is not the one you are referring to. I also remember him giving an interview where he was asked if he felt pressured to acquiesce to end the strike once it started and he quipped that he was getting pressure from everywhere, customers, family, his dog. I am guessing that is not what you are referring to either.

As a side note, we obviously remember this major event from two very different perspectives. You seem to be in the union camp of the company was just being greedy and out to screw the employees anyway they could. Prior to the strike I had an opportunity to see if the company I worked for was a soulless monster or if it did care about its employees when I was involved in the process of consolidating a CSTC, the elimination of dozens of (non bargaining unit) jobs. Suffice to say, it performed that process in the manner of a company that did indeed care about its employees. Admittedly, other experiences years after the strike were much different...

I remember a separate strike vote. I remember a stike notice, a deadline. In my area, the issues were full time jobs (the slogan was we can't have a part time America) and taking control of our pension. For me, in hindsight, we won. I would have a part time pension right now (with the ups proposal). And could not afford to retire until 67 instead of 52. That is 15 years of life.....priceless.

Besides, being pt sup, off the street hire. The $300 a week in stike pay was a welcomed raise.