tieguy
Banned
Brownie they seem to like it. While you have some fdx employees looking to join the union it does not appear that there that many. Thats part of why its so hard for the teamsters to organize them.
Ron Carey- Local 804 hero
- Thread starter local804
- Start date
Brownie they seem to like it. While you have some fdx employees looking to join the union it does not appear that there that many. Thats part of why its so hard for the teamsters to organize them.
tieguy
Banned
the teamsters have always sold out the part timer. thats why the thought of them going on strike for the part timer is laughable. Starting wage before strike 8 bucks. After - 8 bucks. Next Aces tells me about the combo jobs.
One of the things TDU used to beat up the union leadership about was all the different classifications and pay rates all doing the same job. Guess what ronnie added to the list without a peep from TDU.
He's a hero if you believe his press clippings.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Somehow I get the image that you had spittle flying from your mouth as you wrote this.
You're crazy. Compare your payout to to the company plan payout, it's not even close. It sounds like your plan administrators are taking the right steps to bring your funding levels back into compliance with ERISA while still providing a better retirement than the UPS plan.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Aces, I have said from day one that I am a upser first and a Teamster by default. I did not seek employment at UPS just so I could join the Teamsters--hell, I had no idea the Teamsters represented UPS until after I was hired. I am thankful for the wage and benefits that I enjoy and the pension that will ensure a secure retirement.
My very first center manager gave me this advice: Watch out for yourself as no one will do it for you.
9 more years and I won't have to deal with folks such as yourself.
tieguy
Banned
The question will be whether those plans will be able to restore benifits back to previous levels at some point. most desperately need this economy to turn around to have any hope.
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
A problem that is not unique to Teamster pension plans. Many company run plans are also in shambles. Those were promises made also. Too many retirees as apposed to workers paying in and a 10 year dead market created the perfect storm. 10% returns for the last 13 years and Ron Carey would be a hero.
tieguy
Banned
You might be right about other company run plans but the ups run one that management and non-union belong to is pretty solid. Thats what UPS offered the teamsters in 97.
rod
Retired 23 years
Are you saying that UPS is "solid" as of now?. As an outsider looking in and reading most of what is posted on the BC by management and hourly alike I wouldn't support that claim. If it is so solid why all the pressure for more and more production from the worker bees? It appears to me that the confrontation between management and hourlies (for that matter upper management and lower managemen isn't any better) grows as we speak. Anyone on the street will tell you that UPS isn't the admired company they used to be. In fact all I've heard about UPS for the last 6- 8 years is how great a company it used to be but it is now going down the toliet. Business owners I know talk of how they never know when the UPS truck will come or about how they can't get help with a problem they are having.. All I know is I still get my monthly pension check as regular as clockwork and if it did disappear tomorrow I would still survive.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Received a letter from the pension fund today--turns out our split raises on 8/1/10, 2/1/11, 8/1/11, and 2/1/12 will all be diverted to the pension.
rod
Retired 23 years
All I'm saying is that I'm prepared if it does. I don't owe a dime to anyone for anything I own. Everything - house- car- truck- motorcycle- boats - you name it----its all paid for. I have 5 other sources of income (my investment portfolio, my wifes investment portfolio, wifes pension ck, my social security ck and a piddly little part time govt job that I could get more hours at if I wanted to). I could deffinitely survive without any pension check. VA would take over my medical. My ace in the hole is my wife could go back to her job if need be.
(don't tell her I said that).Actually the Starting Wage went up 50 cents.
Seniority part-timers got a 60 cent raise.
Many part-timers got a "Catch-up" raise of 15 cents.
Was this your understanding when you voted?
What about the 8/1/12 and 2/1/13 raises?
Actually, no. UPS did not offer the Management Plan to us. They offered a sales brochure with proposed plan features that left much to be desired.
There was, in fact, no existing plan. Management's offer was for us to end the strike, go back to work, and then, both sides would sit down and invent a plan. Of course, having ended the strike, all our bargaining power would be gone.
Aside from the disappointing details in the sales brochure, the feature that made the proposal a non-starter was that UPS refused to rule out a Social Security Offset.
- - - -
By Law, UPS must fund the Management Plan 100%. So whenever the plan becomes under funded, UPS simply takes the required monies from the general UPS opperation and deposits them into the fund . Of course this means all of us are subsidizing the Management Fund to keep it sound. Unfortunately no law requires UPS to fund the multi-employer funds at anything near 100%, so it doesn't.
All funds loose money when the stock market drops significantly as it did in 2000 and more recently. But the Law only forces UPS to fix the Management Plan promptly.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Yes, this was my understanding when I voted. It is also my understanding that diverting the 4 split raises should be enough so that we can then keep the remaining two.
The Temsters do not, and have never, controlled the multi-employer pension funds. By Law the funds are completely seperate legal entities from the Teamsters. The funds are run by an equal number of Union and Management Trustees. UPS got UPSers into these funds before most UPSers were even born. UPS has been in them ever since, often as their largest contributor. UPS recently signed a ten-year agreement to not advocate withdrawal from any of the funds. Repeatedly down through the years UPS signed all the basic documents agreeing to its terms of participation in the funds, and ratified all the Management Trustees and all their legal actions as its own. All Management Trustees are UPS' representatives, even if they are not actually from UPS. UPS has re-negotiated our Contracts time after time with their Partners, the Teamsters, and included the Pension Fund language in each of those Best Ever Contracts.
NEWSFLASH: Central States has been administered under Court Order since 1978!!! Federal judges run the fund. All investment decisions were made by "Named Fiduciaries," not the Trustees, not the Teamsters. Blame the Judges. Blame the Named Fiduciaries: Morgan Stanley, Bankers Trust, Goldman Sachs, J. P. Morgan, and Northern Trust Global Advisors. UPS relies on some of these same investment firms, and others just like them, to run its own financial matters.
tieguy
Banned
tieguy
Banned
Good rebuttal. The problem with all this fine prose is the point remains unchallenged. Carey fought ups's efforts to fix the pension problem for various reasons. In so doing he bares the burden of fixing them. Ten years later here we are and UPS is now fixing the central states plan. you struck for nothing yet you want to make the guy a hero.
brownmonster
Man of Great Wisdom
I have no doubt that UPS could and does run solvent pension plans. I also have no doubt they could afford a Turkey and safe driving awards. Doesn't mean they can't just pull the plug.
