Seems Iraq's VP doesn't agree with Bush either

[ok2bclever]

our troops activities in Iraq are on Par with Saddaam Hussiens atrocities under consideration.

I really don't care how you take anything, but let's be clear that you just issued that stupid and asinine statement, not I.

I would never say something like that.

If you are denying that atrocities are happening throughout Iraq on a daily basis so be it.

I cannot stop you from uttering such foolishness.

The current Iraq government recently defined acts of violence against their countrymen as acts of terrorism and acts of violence against our troops as acts of legitimate insurgency.

This from the government that would last less than a day without our troops protecting them.

 

[tieguy]

I really don't care how you take anything, but let's be clear that you just issued that stupid and asinine statement, not I.

I would never say something like that.

Perhaps I misunderstood your intent in that post.

Perhaps I get irritated because the Bush haters while try to downplay the significence of Hussiens brutal dictatorship.

Even now after Suzie conceeded the point that Saddaam Hussien may actually be responsible for a million deaths she follows it up with another post where she again tries to downplay his brutality. Its like I've said before I really don't care if you and Suzie want to be Bush haters. He certainly has his detractors and he will earn whatever credit or blame he recieves.

I do think the debate on whether the was is right or wrong has to be as objective as possible. Hussien had one of the vilest most brutal dictatorships ever. Whether he ranks 7 in history or 15th the end result is the same. The argument that there are other brutal dictators out there and Hussien was not really that bad just does not wash. When I sense that argument may again be getting played I jumped.

I personally think the point should be conceeded that he was and the world is a whole lot better off.

I think we should conceed the point that our military and civilan contractors are doing Iraq a lot of good that is not being reported on the evening news.

Once we establish those points then perhaps the debate should focus on what is working / not working in Iraq or whether the sacrifice has been worth it.

Linking left wing sources that accuse the US of some conspiracy to get into Iraq or downplaying Hussiens significance does the debate little good.

 

[ok2bclever]

There is no doubt from my end that saddaam was/is a vile creature that should be put to death.

For his type, where there is no reasonable doubt I wouldn't have a qualm about pulling the trigger (or baseball bat) myself right now.

The trial already shows it is just going to be a circus and anything short of execution will be a travesty of justice.

The world will certainly be better of without such scum.

Is Iraq a better, safer place to live since the invasion?

Not for most.

Those in the cities and much elsewhere had electricity, food and water prior to the invasion and many still don't have two out of three of those at any given moment currently.

That is not even counting the multiple thousands of innocents that have died since the beginning of the invasion.

We are not even close to bringing the country's infrastructure back up to what it was pre-invasion, let alone where it was before the sanctions incurred from saddaam's military invasion of kuwait brought the country to it's knees.

Will the situation improve?

I certainly hope so for both Iraq and the USA's sake.

I believe I read it's cost our military/country something like 250 billiion dollars to date (not to mention so many lives of our best and most precious) and is estimated to cost another billion next year alone.

I don't have much optimism for Iraq to end up a democratic ally, but I hope we can at least get their military up to an adequate level to maintain their own country so we can get our troops out.

As long as we remain an occupation force there the massive and senseless destruction of infrastructure and life will continue unabated as too much of the population supports such activists either actively or passively whether by philosophy or fear (doesn't matter really as we don't have the manpower to protect the population from the reprisals the fear arises from unfortunately).

We are bleeding our youth's blood and country's economical health out in that land for what appears little gain even temporarily, let alone long term.

If you believe the Iraq government will become a fair, democratic government and ally of the USA and a stabilizing force in the mideast I could see you thinking it a worthwhile cost we have and are paying.

I just don't see those as the likely results personally and so view the costs too high.

We simply cannot be the judge, jury and executioner for the world's wrongs, we are not that numerous to be able to accomplish that unfortunately.

 

[automated]

The Bremer Paradox

Paul Bremer's political stumbles made Iraq's transition harder.

Link To Original Article

 

[tieguy]

Cheryl can you limit the rights of anon posters so they can't post links or enjoy any other privileges that registered users post?

 

[Information Please]

I don't understand why it should matter who I am. So what if I am who you think I am. I have a right to post here. I will not be denied this right. I need to be able to post here. It's all I have anymore.

 

[cheryl]

Cheryl can you limit the rights of anon posters so they can't post links or enjoy any other privileges that registered users post?

I could, but some unregistered posters actually contribute pretty good information. Some people just don't want to register, for whatever reason...

The majority of traffic on here is people lurking, they just read the posts and never post on the board at all. If someone wants to submit a post as an unregistered user I don't really see a problem with it. All unregistered posts have to be approved by a moderator. Anything obscene or offensive is deleted before it goes public. Unregistered users can't vote in polls, search the forum, use the private messaging system, download attachments, set up user control panel options, use profiles or view the member list. Pretty much all they can do is to submit a post which is queued for moderator approval.

 

[Information Please]

I don't understand why it should matter who I am. So what if I am who you think I am. I have a right to post here. I will not be denied this right. I need to be able to post here. It's all I have anymore.

This is obviously an impersonation. Perhaps Cheryl could find out if it is one of tieguy's IP Addresses. He seems to have a problem with unregistered posters for some reason. Pathetic.

 

[trickpony1]

I don't understand why it matters either.
All this time I have been parading as a feeder driver with 25+ years in, of course, this doesn't require a shred of evidence and who's to say any different?
Some people hold positions in which they can't or aren't allowed to vent their frustration without fear of retribution.
No one at my hub knows I post on this board however I'm sure there is some "whiz-bang" in Atlanta that has already tracked, traced and identified all of us. I really don't care as my attitudes and opinions on this board are the same as they are in person.
This board tends to cater to those who only want to hear the "wine and roses" and "lollipops and butterfly kisses" stories of our work environment. Anything contrary raises the hair on the back of the neck of some of our infamous management posters. I surf another message board that, with the exception of some foul mouthed individuals, is as informative, if not more so, than this board.
Would it make y'all feel better if I posted the name of the hub that I work out of and, more specific, my initials? I would never be able to prove retailation by the company for my contrary opinions posted here.
C'mon, management posters.....it's your turn.

 

[cheryl]

I'm sure there is some "whiz-bang" in Atlanta that has already tracked, traced and identified all of us.

That can't be done... unless you choose to use your real name in your profile or post some kind of other specific information about yourself. No one except me has access to any registered user's ip information and no one else has any way to access that information. The only reason I ever look up an ip address is to trace some kind of problem on the board, which actually happens very rarely.

Anyone ever heard of user information on any board being traced without the user posting their personal information voluntarily?

 

[trickpony1]

My recent memory seems to recall a poster on this message board who apparently had software capable of revealing the street address, city, state and IP address of posters. If the software exists for the ordinary person then I'm sure the company has it.
It wouldn't be difficult for the company to interpolate and draw accurate conclusions based on information casually given by the poster.
If what you say is true then it proves my point.....why register? I could be someone other than the feeder driver I have presented myself to be.
Thanks.

 

[cheryl]

My recent memory seems to recall a poster on this message board who apparently had software capable of revealing the street address, city, state and IP address of posters.

Sorry my friend, that is impossible. There are avatars or gifs commonly used on internet boards that reflect the information from your internet service provider back at your own computer. I do recall that a couple of people have posted things like that here before so that is probably what you are recalling.

If I'm wrong someone please prove it, and don't try to use my info because it's readily available to everyone as a matter of public record.

I dare you​

 

[retired]

If I'm wrong someone please prove it, and don't try to use my info because it's a matter of public record.

I dare you​

If anyone can dig up my personal information you can post it here. My son is in a computer security graduate program and he just said it can't be done. Bring it on!

 

[tieguy]

Agreed.

I think perhaps my question about limiting anonymous posting rights was misunderstood or not explained well enough. I'm not pushing for eliminating anonymous rights at this time.

There were some concerns about a poster going overboard in what I called stalking.

That poster was obviously a very active poster on this board.

It would be logical to assume that poster may try to continue to participate anonymously.

I was curious if that should happen again as to whether or not Cheryl could further limit anonymous rights to limit the posting of links or pictures which is what caused her removal.

 

[tieguy]

This board tends to cater to those who only want to hear the "wine and roses" and "lollipops and butterfly kisses" stories of our work environment. Anything contrary raises the hair on the back of the neck of some of our infamous management posters.

I don't know if I would call it catering. The board itself is here and is not set up by Cheryl to promote lollipops and butterfly kisses. That depends on the community who posts here. I have a right to my opinion you to yours. I am one person here. Neither I nor UPS own any part of this site.
There are many non-management posters here some of them stewards or former stewards. All seem to be pretty honest about what they like and don't like about UPS.

I surf another message board that, with the exception of some foul mouthed individuals, is as informative, if not more so, than this board.
Would it make y'all feel better if I posted the name of the hub that I work out of and, more specific, my initials? I would never be able to prove retailation by the company for my contrary opinions posted here.
C'mon, management posters.....it's your turn.

turn for what? Message boards allow all of us to be as anonymous as we care to. No one has the ability to come onto this site and track you if you don't wish to reveal yourself. What hub you come from does not matter to anyone. I can register here, post and still be anonymous if I choose. I do think anyone that posts here should show support for all of Cheryls hard work by registering. Just because we don't have a bunch of malcontents on this site crying about the man screwing us does not make this a lollipop board. Personally I think you need to get rid of this anger you have against anyone who has a positive opinion about UPS. There is no ass to kiss on this board. The dialogue has been honest and often brutally so.

 

[retired]

If anyone can dig up my personal information you can post it here. My son is in a computer security graduate program and he just said it can't be done. Bring it on!

It sure is quiet in here

everyone must be busy looking up my name and address