Sign of things to come

[dannyboy]

BUt big brown, Ive been there. Done that. And still got the/my green card to prove it.

So give me your excuses, reasons for not stepping up to the plate.......If you were told you could become a citizen if you learned the language, but would be deported if you didnt, you really think they wouldnt?

d

 

[helenofcalifornia]

America has always been the land of opportunity for the masses. It still is the place where with a lot of hard work and a good idea, you can rise above your class. I understand that if you come to this country as a visitor and want to stay you should do it legally. But...if you are a semi-hungry Mexican national, living on tortillas and frijoles, with kids that need to go to school, you are going to try and do the best for your family. And that might mean an illegal trip across the border. I'm just saying.

What I would be interested to know, Danny (and you know I agree with most of what you say and am in your corner, but...), how much traveling outside the US have you done? (and the army doesn't count) I think a lot of Americans think in national terms instead of global terms. If they traveled outside our borders they might think way differently. I think that's why the US is so ostracized in the world right now; because we only are thinking about ourselves and what's good for the US and not looking on ourselves as a global partner. (Yeah, I am voting for Obama)

And the chances of Mexicans getting into this country legally are next to nil. I mean, what talents do they have other than incredibly hard workers. Indians with their computer skills, no problem, etc. You know why there are so many Chinese restaurants on border towns in Mexico? Chinese waiting for their numbers to come up in the US immigration lottery. And they wait YEARS. They are doing it the legal way, but, jeez, YEARS???

I am for legal immigration, I am for waiting your turn and doing it the right way, I am for immigrants learning English if they are going to stay here, I have some issues with amnesty. This is a tangent and a run on statement.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

BUt big brown, Ive been there. Done that. And still got the/my green card to prove it.

So give me your excuses, reasons for not stepping up to the plate.......If you were told you could become a citizen if you learned the language, but would be deported if you didnt, you really think they wouldnt?

d

Of course they would, but it sure wouldn't be learned overnight. I'm not sure what you are trying to say about stepping up to the plate. Half of my family has done the same thing as you.

 

[dannyboy]

What I am saying is after two years, and for many, decades in this country, and you hear "no habla englase"? That is my point. Sorry, that should never be.

As for the world view, lets see, we bring all the poor of the world to our shores, and dont help them change their part of the world? Why? How long do you think our standard of living, which by the way is slipping, will be as high as it is with everyone in the world that has it tough moving here?

 

[dannyboy]

To finish the post above after the key board died, why not encourage the development of the areas that need it. Why bring them here to better their lives, if they all leave and come here, how does that improve where they came from?

The answer is not mass immigration, places like france and other parts of europe are seeing the side effects now. England is reacting to the fall out of unrestricted immigration.

As I said, I dont have a problem with them coming. The problem I have is that they do not intend to become a part of america. They dont want to, and take great pride in refusing to learn the language and the culture.

I know that the above paragraph does not apply to all the immigrants, but it does to a large number. And it is that number I have lost patience with.

d

 

[BigBrownSanta]

What I am saying is after two years, and for many, decades in this country, and you hear "no habla englase"? That is my point. Sorry, that should never be.

As for the world view, lets see, we bring all the poor of the world to our shores, and dont help them change their part of the world? Why? How long do you think our standard of living, which by the way is slipping, will be as high as it is with everyone in the world that has it tough moving here?

You and I are probably much more in agreement than our conversation would indicate. I am not in favor of illegal immigration nor amnesty. The government needs to enforce the laws and the border. If there's a reason to be offended, it should be channeled to the elected officials who would rather sit around and debate this issue based on their political bias.

In the meanwhile, children are starting school with no understanding of english because their parents don't speak english at home, because the government didn't prevent their parent's entry into the country and force their parents to pass a citizenship test that requires that their parents have a basic understanding of english.

So, in the end, what do you do? Allow those kids to sit in first grade for 2-3 years until they learn english or start another class in spanish so that those kids have a fair chance in life?

 

[moreluck]

I forget the day and the celebration's name (maybe Freedom Day) or something like that. Anyway, it was when all the Hispanics were marching with their flags of Mexico and demonstrating in the street.

We happened to be in Vegas at the time and we were stopped at a red light at Sahara and Las Vegas Blvd. Huge groups of Hispanic teenagers were crossing in the crosswalk, carrying the Mexican flags and shaking their fists at the cars stopped there. They had very angry, mean looks on their faces and their fists were threatening -looking to me.

I believe it was just another way to get out of school and act like idiots. When the light changed for the cars to go, the stream of crossers kept coming. OK, now you're breaking the law.

What does crap like this accomplish? Anytime there's a "group mentality" going on, I'm not trusting anybody.

 

[wkmac]

To finish the post above after the key board died, why not encourage the development of the areas that need it. Why bring them here to better their lives, if they all leave and come here, how does that improve where they came from?

The answer is not mass immigration, places like france and other parts of europe are seeing the side effects now. England is reacting to the fall out of unrestricted immigration.

As I said, I dont have a problem with them coming. The problem I have is that they do not intend to become a part of america. They dont want to, and take great pride in refusing to learn the language and the culture.

I know that the above paragraph does not apply to all the immigrants, but it does to a large number. And it is that number I have lost patience with.

d

Your first sentence after the "keyboard died" is a very important point. NAFTA and some of these trade agreements were sold to the public under an illusion of helping to spread commerce in order to develop these areas so they won't "need to come here!" For whatever reason that has not panned out at least IMO. Mexico has oil resources so why do we not help them develop that industry and buy their oil and tell the mideast to take a hike? I'd rather make the poor mexicans rich in their own homes than to fatten up a bunch of arabs who could care less about us. May not be as easy as it sounds and I'll admit that but I sure wish we'd talk about it in open public.

Trick IMO also made an excellent point about the corrupt gov't which presents it's own set of problems. You guys have made a lot of good points but here's 2 that I found interesting sometime back and sorry I don't have either source at hand. Make a note and then confirm later from other sources.

The bad news: By 2050' and I think this was a Heritage Foundation study, at current legal and illegal immigration rates along with birthrates, hispanics will become the majority population. It's not a given because of other factors but if current trends stay, it will be the case. Wanna go in half on learning spanish by buying the software from Rosette Stone?


Now the Good from the Bad news: A lot is said these day of the falling dollar world wide and the economic impact from this. The good news is the outsourcing of overseas jobs has slowed and even reversed in some areas as out dollar makes our real wages the cheaper bargin on the global labor market. The gov't said they'd do something about America's job loss and by Gawd they sure have!


I heard someone say recently that over the last several years, China has advanced to where it's people went from walking to riding bicycles to now driving cars and motorcycles. Americans however are going from Cars and motorcycles to bicycles and walking and in the case of one college, students are getting to class on horseback. What's wrong with this picture people?

 

[dilligaf]

Silly Dilly

The two of you ladies are confusing the issue. For the most part, they are very nice, and many want to learn the language. Bur more than that, they want to provide the American dream for their families. I for one could support that very openly.

If they want to stay, thats fine, lets get them legal, paying taxes, and main lined into our education system. Not be forced to build schools that teach in spanish, or force teachers to develop a curriculum in both languages. That is not making wise use of a system that is already failing because of the dumbing down of the educational system.

They want in, let them come. But if they want to stay, learn the language, dont force us to learn theirs.

They are our guests, not the other way around.

d

Daniel, I am not confused on the issue, at all. I agree with you absolutely. If anyone wants to transplant to this country then they should pay taxes, learn the language and become legalized citizens. I do not agree with anyone abusing our welfare system. I.E. staying at home and having baby after baby, which is very prevalent. Unfortunately it is as prevalent with immigrants as it is with our own.

 

[dannyboy]

Santa

Give me a kid that wants to learn, and I will teach him english in less than a year. But you want to go to school more than 4 hours a day, and have the other two be recess and hispanic studies

Seriously, when we quit trying to be politically correct, and worried about someone elses color, background, birthplace, and do what is right, everything will work out.

BTW, I agree with Mexican oil. I figure we oughta pull an Iraq attack. Most of the mexicans are here anyway, no one left to protect the oil fields. Make them the 51st-55th states, and all is well with our world. Then we only need to take a few more acres, and let the panama canal be the border we guard. That would be much cheaper, and easy to do.

d

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Silly Dilly

The two of you ladies are confusing the issue. For the most part, they are very nice, and many want to learn the language. Bur more than that, they want to provide the American dream for their families. I for one could support that very openly.

If they want to stay, thats fine, lets get them legal, paying taxes, and main lined into our education system. Not be forced to build schools that teach in spanish, or force teachers to develop a curriculum in both languages. That is not making wise use of a system that is already failing because of the dumbing down of the educational system.

They want in, let them come. But if they want to stay, learn the language, dont force us to learn theirs.

They are our guests, not the other way around.

d

I don't agree with the bolded part. If they're living here, they're not guests now are they! A guest to me would imply a temporary visitor...anyway..

 

[dannyboy]

What would you call someone that is not suposed to be here, and does not have the legal standing to stay legally?

That is unless you are implying that a guest is usually invited, in which I would agree with your disagreement!

d

 

[moreluck]

How do you get rid of unwanted guests ??.......don't make it soooooo comfortable for them.

 

[dannyboy]

That brings something that happened to my dad last year to mind.

He went on a cruise that had a keynote speaker on board that had been in the inside circle in the Kenedy whitehouse. He was very engaging and when my dad found out that he had no plans after the cruise, he invited him to stay with them for a while in naples.

The few days turned into weeks and then a month and more. Borrowed suits without returning them, ran up large phone bills etc etc etc. Suposedly he was also there to be a special advisor to a high profile law case there at the time, but later on that was found to be a lie, one of many they caught him at.

Anyway, he was a guest that was from hell. A real fraud. Or a dead beat has been. They were really glad to see him go.

d

 

[UPS Lifer]

My boy at age 16 applied to work at McDonald's. Isn't that the ritual first job for millions of kids, right? Hard NOT to be hired at McDonalds, right? Well, he didn't get hired and the only reason I could think of was that he was the only one not to speak spanish there. Now, I could be wrong, but...

I was visiting my parents in Scottsdale AZ back in '95. My wife and I were sitting in a restaurant and noticed nobody of color, only white folk! I was shocked!

I told her - the real test will be to go to McDonald's. Let's see who is working there. Every kid behind the counter and on the grill was white.

Again... totally shocked!

I was from California and was used to being more of a minority than a majority.

Sedona is 88% white but we are a heavy tourist destination and get people from all over the world. If I hadn't looked up some real estate stats I would not have known the demographics of the city.

All I noticed was the old hippies!

Illegal immigration is a very sore subject in AZ and even hotter subject in Northern AZ. Again, just my opinion of what I have seen, may not be factual!

 

[UPS Lifer]

Oh ! One interesting note... the illegals are crossing the border in less numbers than last year. This is being attributed to the problems with our economy as well as high gas prices and a crackdown on hiring practices.

I heard this on a Phoenix based news broadcast a couple of weeks ago! I can't remember the exact stats.

Believe me.... the Mexicans would not come here if the standard of living were higher in Mexico. How do you fix another country? Do you close the border, help improve their economy - what do you do???

If there is no bird feed in the feeder the birds do not come!

 

[dannyboy]

You invade, make them states 51-55, get rid of the Peso, and make them all American. Then they can go where they please.

d

 

[helenofcalifornia]

Didn't the last amnesty law have some "teeth" in it that made the employer the one responsible for verifying the employee was "legal?" I know if you are given fake SS cards, it may be hard to verify, but it seems to me the feds should have a quicker way of verifying the card. Also, even if the employer "verifies" the SS card, come on, they know an illegal when they see them. (Does the cowboy hat, cowboy shirt, tight levi's and cowboy boots give them any clues???) But the feds won't do anything because of the big money lobbies that back the labor forces that want the cheap labor. So on one hand, people want to build walls to prevent them from coming here for a job, and on the other hand, hey, once you are here, nothing much stopping you from getting a job.
Government speaks with forker tongue on many, many issues and this is one.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

Last year my state passed an immigration reform law. Almost overnight the Mexican population disappeared. Literally.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,270963,00.html

Last week it was delayed as unconstitutional.

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Jun04/0,4670,ImmigrationCrackdownOklahoma,00.html

What do you do?

 

[DS]

I know if you are given fake SS cards, it may be hard to verify, but it seems to me the feds should have a quicker way of verifying the card. .

In canada if you are canadian,you get a health card and a drivers licence that they can swipe and see who you are.We dont get many mexicans up here,maybe its too cold.