Southwest Travel Benefits "Suspended" - Awesome

[quadro]

Ok, I'll make this just one post because apparently OLCC has a comprehension problem and can't read too many posts. OLCC, I apologize for responding to different people and trying to keep things easy to follow. Apparently not easy enough.

Slobberman, can you please provide a reference so that I may educate myself on which labor rules the call center agents work under? Not that I doubt you, but I just like to be able to verify facts.

MrFedex I've been around much longer than 20 years. I've seen many of my peers drive nice cars, live in nice houses and provide for their family and it's not because of a spouse with a high paying job. No, I don't know everything about their personal finances but I do know that I find myself in the same position as them in terms of lifestyle and it's because of my job and my ability to live within my means. So yes, I do like things the way they are. But that's just me. I completely understand that may not be the case for you. I'm just trying to understand the various points of view.

Ricochet1a if I just agreed with everything it wouldn't be much of a debate. I am just trying to educate myself and understand what could be. As I learn and understand more, I change my views on certain items. I wish more people would educate themselves so that they can make informed decisions and not make moronic statements like calling the difference between yield and profits semantics. Oh, and you left out a third possibility of a strike outcome. The Ground drivers deliver all the Express packages and all the Express drivers go home to look for new jobs. But that tidbit of info doesn't help the cause now does it?

I have not posted under any other name. I've read some very insightful posts around here and have learned a lot. I don't come here to try and convince anyone of anything. I want to read other people's views, have a good debate, and share information. If I see something as BS, I'll call it, just like many of you. I know that my take on things isn't the popular view around here. Not interested in being a sheep so that's fine with me.

 

[MrFedEx]

quadro,
If we do go union, all it would take would be 3 or 4 RTD's to pull over to the side of the road and just sit there for a couple of hours "broken down" to throw an entire district into chaos. The same thing could be accomplished with a relative handful of couriers calling-in "sick" for a few days. It's just a big house of cards, and I'd be happy to pull one right off the bottom for you.

 

[quadro]

quadro,
If we do go union, all it would take would be 3 or 4 RTD's to pull over to the side of the road and just sit there for a couple of hours "broken down" to throw an entire district into chaos. The same thing could be accomplished with a relative handful of couriers calling-in "sick" for a few days. It's just a big house of cards, and I'd be happy to pull one right off the bottom for you.

Just to be clear, I'm not playing devil's advocate to annoy you. I'm honestly trying to further the discussion by exploring different ideas, help myself and anyone who wants to listen, and clarify incorrect facts and misconceptions, whether they be mine or someone else's.
Now back to your point. I don't think that would do it. Just look at any day where an aircraft is late and you get a late ctv. The stations deal with it. They are enough people who are willing to overcome that obstacle and make it work. For now, I am one of them. In my station, and many stations around the country where I have friends, we still have coffee and water provided (contrary to the claim in one of these posts that FedEx has cut that). My manager respects me and the feeling is mutual. Maybe I'm being naive as it stands right now, I'm not willing to give up what I have for what I might get.

That doesn't mean I think those who want a union are wrong. Heck by the time the dust settles, you guys might have convinced me it would be best for me. I just don't begrudge Fred for who he is or what he's done. I've met him a few times and never had an issue with him. If I started a company that had one of the most recognized names in the world, I think I'd be entitled to a few million a year. And at this point, his salary is pretty irrelevant as even if he worked for free, it would put anything worthwhile in the hourly paycheck.

Sorry, I realize Fred's not a popular subject around here and I'm not here to sing his praises. Just posting some rambling thoughts while watching college football.

 

[MrFedEx]

Just to be clear, I'm not playing devil's advocate to annoy you. I'm honestly trying to further the discussion by exploring different ideas, help myself and anyone who wants to listen, and clarify incorrect facts and misconceptions, whether they be mine or someone else's.
Now back to your point. I don't think that would do it. Just look at any day where an aircraft is late and you get a late ctv. The stations deal with it. They are enough people who are willing to overcome that obstacle and make it work. For now, I am one of them. In my station, and many stations around the country where I have friends, we still have coffee and water provided (contrary to the claim in one of these posts that FedEx has cut that). My manager respects me and the feeling is mutual. Maybe I'm being naive as it stands right now, I'm not willing to give up what I have for what I might get.

That doesn't mean I think those who want a union are wrong. Heck by the time the dust settles, you guys might have convinced me it would be best for me. I just don't begrudge Fred for who he is or what he's done. I've met him a few times and never had an issue with him. If I started a company that had one of the most recognized names in the world, I think I'd be entitled to a few million a year. And at this point, his salary is pretty irrelevant as even if he worked for free, it would put anything worthwhile in the hourly paycheck.

Sorry, I realize Fred's not a popular subject around here and I'm not here to sing his praises. Just posting some rambling thoughts while watching college football.

If you get your CTV 4 hours late, or not at all, you can overcome that? My point is that it wouldn't take very much to throw a wrench into the works.

I've heard that coffee, water etc are available in some stations because the senior chose to pay for it themselves. FedEx the corporation has decreed that these type of services be stopped. Kudos to your manager if he's decided to buck the system.

And Fred. Yes, I've met him too, and he seems cordial enough in person. I have no issue with him making millions of dollars IF he deals squarely with us...and he hasn't. He just keeps on taking, and he needs to be stopped. He thinks we're overpaid as it is and I'm sure he'd like to take away more. Most of the perks that helped span the pay gap between us and UPS are long gone. Remember profit sharing? Or tuition refund before they modified it?

I'm curious. Just what would you be giving up if we go union? Your stagnant wages, your wonderful PPP retirement plan? The only benefit I see being yanked is interline, and that's because Fred no longer would have to pretend we're an "airline".

Gains? How about a true retirement plan, for one. And realistic top-out times (like 3 years) that don't stretch on for eternity. I'm not expecting to make as much as a UPS driver, but I would like more competitive pay and the end of the PPP. The pilots figured all of this out a long time ago, and Fred threatened to trample them too. He didn't, because he couldn't, and he'd have to bargain with us eventually or risk a major loss of his customer base for Express.

 

[teresarice]

I use to work ops at swa . Now I drive ups . Lots of reasons to get rid of a non-rev usually its verbal abuse to an employee . Must have been real bad to suspend for that long. A little spanking I guess. Non- reving is not what it use to be Id rather pay now. But I flew before 911 so way different yes there is a certain way to act and dress I can spot them in any airport . But why if fedx goes union would they lose there flight bennies they dont care if your union they are all union.

 

[quadro]

If you get your CTV 4 hours late, or not at all, you can overcome that? My point is that it wouldn't take very much to throw a wrench into the works.

In all likelihood, another driver or manager would just go get the CTV and take it to the station. Even at 4 hours late, sure, we've done that before. Remember 4 hours late means about 1100. If it's not going to arrive by 0830 then it doesn't really matter if it gets there at 0900 or 1100. Not as big of a wrench as it sounds. Certainly no fun but doable.

I've heard that coffee, water etc are available in some stations because the senior chose to pay for it themselves. FedEx the corporation has decreed that these type of services be stopped. Kudos to your manager if he's decided to buck the system.

Actually FedEx hasn't decreed that. If they are not provided in your station that's because your senior chooses not to provide them. The CSA at my station that orders supplies, orders the coffee, water, etc. If FedEx had decreed no coffee, I don't think she'd be able to order it as it has to be approved by at least the director if not the VP. Not sure what the sign off levels are these days.

I'm curious. Just what would you be giving up if we go union? Your stagnant wages, your wonderful PPP retirement plan? The only benefit I see being yanked is interline, and that's because Fred no longer would have to pretend we're an "airline".

That's just it. I'm not willing to risk what I have because I don't know what I'd have to give up and there's no way that we wouldn't have to give up something. Just to clarify something, the interline benefits are just a side benefit of the negotiated business contracts between FedEx and various airlines. I don't believe that FedEx goes out and negotiates personal benefits. They need the interline agreements to move AOG parts, crews, etc. at a discounted rate. It's a reciprocal agreement. A side benefit of it is the personal discounts. There's a real possibility that they would still exist even under a union. They don't cost FedEx anything.

Gains? How about a true retirement plan, for one. And realistic top-out times (like 3 years) that don't stretch on for eternity. I'm not expecting to make as much as a UPS driver, but I would like more competitive pay and the end of the PPP. The pilots figured all of this out a long time ago, and Fred threatened to trample them too. He didn't, because he couldn't, and he'd have to bargain with us eventually or risk a major loss of his customer base for Express.

I think under the new NMA for UPS you would make as much as a UPS driver, give or take. Because of the PPA (pension protection act) I honestly don't see a defined benefit plan coming back, even with a union. Just looking at the last few years before the law changed, FedEx was putting in half a billion dollars a year into the pension fund. Under the new law, the required yearly deposit could be many times that. I just don't see where those billions are going to come from. If it was millions, I would see it completely differently but we are talking billions a year.

 

[MrFedEx]

I use to work ops at swa . Now I drive ups . Lots of reasons to get rid of a non-rev usually its verbal abuse to an employee . Must have been real bad to suspend for that long. A little spanking I guess. Non- reving is not what it use to be Id rather pay now. But I flew before 911 so way different yes there is a certain way to act and dress I can spot them in any airport . But why if fedx goes union would they lose there flight bennies they dont care if your union they are all union.

Our guy took off all his clothes and started hitting people as soon as the flight got to cruising altitude.They had to turn around and go back to OAK. The news article didn't say it, but drugs are highly suspected. The best part was the picture of all the Alameda County deputies crammed into the aisle getting ready to take this clown apart if he didn't want to be arrested. Probably one of our stellar hub employees from OAK.

FedEx would probably cancel the flight benefits because there wouldn't be any need to pretend that they are an "airline" any more if we go union. Then they could get the revenue back from all of those 75% discounted pkgs the airlines send to all of their repair stations.

 

[MrFedEx]

In all likelihood, another driver or manager would just go get the CTV and take it to the station. Even at 4 hours late, sure, we've done that before. Remember 4 hours late means about 1100. If it's not going to arrive by 0830 then it doesn't really matter if it gets there at 0900 or 1100. Not as big of a wrench as it sounds. Certainly no fun but doable.


Actually FedEx hasn't decreed that. If they are not provided in your station that's because your senior chooses not to provide them. The CSA at my station that orders supplies, orders the coffee, water, etc. If FedEx had decreed no coffee, I don't think she'd be able to order it as it has to be approved by at least the director if not the VP. Not sure what the sign off levels are these days.


That's just it. I'm not willing to risk what I have because I don't know what I'd have to give up and there's no way that we wouldn't have to give up something. Just to clarify something, the interline benefits are just a side benefit of the negotiated business contracts between FedEx and various airlines. I don't believe that FedEx goes out and negotiates personal benefits. They need the interline agreements to move AOG parts, crews, etc. at a discounted rate. It's a reciprocal agreement. A side benefit of it is the personal discounts. There's a real possibility that they would still exist even under a union. They don't cost FedEx anything.


I think under the new NMA for UPS you would make as much as a UPS driver, give or take. Because of the PPA (pension protection act) I honestly don't see a defined benefit plan coming back, even with a union. Just looking at the last few years before the law changed, FedEx was putting in half a billion dollars a year into the pension fund. Under the new law, the required yearly deposit could be many times that. I just don't see where those billions are going to come from. If it was millions, I would see it completely differently but we are talking billions a year.

My point is that operations would be relatively easy to disrupt. What if the CTV driver decides not to even leave the parking lot at the ramp, and a half-dozen of his friends do the same? There aren't that many managers out there that can even drive a stright truck, much less an 18-wheeler.

The UPS NMA has nothing to do with what we would get, which would be entirely based on collective bargaining. Ending the PPA and replacing it with a real pension plan would be Job 1 and ending the 15-year pay progression would be Job 2. Nobody thinks we will make as much as a UPS driver. the bottom line is that we can do a LOT better than what we have at the present time.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the end of coffee and bottled water. I heard it came straight from MEM. In my district, we have no bottled water and no coffee/tea.

 

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

We get coffee and hot chocolate (who needs hot cocoa in the summer??!!) and no bottled water.

Amen about the straight trucks! We run 4 and just now got a manager through training for them.

I want a pension and my insurance to STOP GOING UP EVERY YEAR!!

 

[SmithBarney]

our pepsi, coke and snack machine have left the building mostly cause none of us
buy stuff so the grandma cookies were 3 yrs old, the coke machine stole money and soda's were old. So the vendors took them back.

We have coffee "service" basically a pot of coffee and pre-measured coffee filled filters.
Hot coco mix, more sugar and non dairy creamer than we'd ever need.
We have a water filter machine, and a water cooler and ice machine.

Still have 9lbs of hot dogs from our last cook out. makes a nice lunch when I'm on split.

 

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

Still have 9lbs of hot dogs from our last cook out. makes a nice lunch when I'm on split.

LOL! The last time we had a cook out, we had fajitas which oddly enough were cooked completely in-house by one of the managers...there was none left the next day, but there was about 15lbs of shredded cheese and lettuce..lol

 

[Artee]

So quadro (or Artee, or whatever name you go by this week), .

Sorry not me. Looks like you will have another olcc for being wrong. When the h1n1 starts coming through tomorrow maybe you can give yourself a dose and wake you up.

 

[SmithBarney]

They called me in for the h1n1 stuff today... 11hrs all OT for 5-6 h1n1 boxes... LOL
had 98 stops, 161 miles...

 

[Washu234]

My station's got two soda machines (with surprisingly reasonable prices - $0.50 for a coke still!?), an ice machine, 4 or so water filter machines (two in the warehouse two in the office), and a pod-type coffee machine (with 3 kinds of coffee and one kind of tea?).

I actually asked about the coffee yesterday because we recently changed vendors and apparently the VP of the New England region has to approve the coffee... so he hasn't cut it yet?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'm only part time, but my station treats me well. I just got back from vacation and I had two managers thank me for all my hard work (apparently one swing couldn't handle my route alone). I would really appreciate a stop to the rising health costs, but our benefits are better then all of my customers (retailers).

 

[Washu234]

Haven't seen the memo yet but my boss told me today that jetBlue standby was to be temporarily suspended late January due to an incident simular to Southwest.

 

[MrFedEx]

Haven't seen the memo yet but my boss told me today that jetBlue standby was to be temporarily suspended late January due to an incident simular to Southwest.

Have Southwest flight benefits been reinstated yet? I never heard any more after the incident at OAK. It wouldn't surprise me that a JetBlue incident could occur, and quite probably out of OAK as well (I'm speculating). Hub people are a breed unto themselves and they tend to behave badly relative to the rest of the company.

Remember, Fred says we're an "airline", which is probably the sole reason we even have interline benefits...to keep the facade going.

 

[quadro]

Have Southwest flight benefits been reinstated yet? I never heard any more after the incident at OAK. It wouldn't surprise me that a JetBlue incident could occur, and quite probably out of OAK as well (I'm speculating). Hub people are a breed unto themselves and they tend to behave badly relative to the rest of the company.

Remember, Fred says we're an "airline", which is probably the sole reason we even have interline benefits...to keep the facade going.

Has nothing to do with what Fred says. FAA makes that determination. FAR121 if I'm not mistaken. You do realize that FedEx can only have interline benefits if the other airline agrees to it? Personal travel is simply a by-product of the business agreements. FedEx doesn't have to allow personal travel even if airlines are willing to offer it.

 

[Washu234]

One of my friends over at USAirways says the suspension is only for a month. I'm not sure how he knows but supposedly it has to do with an upgrade of the jetBlue/Global Travel reservation system and how they handle FedEx reservations (currently the blue piece of paper that says you work for FedEx).

Perhaps they'll switch to the printed tickets direct from global travel that Airtran/Southwest (before the suspension) use.

The Southwest benefits are not reinstated yet. It was a 1 year suspension - so no Southwest till September .

 

[MrFedEx]

Has nothing to do with what Fred says. FAA makes that determination. FAR121 if I'm not mistaken. You do realize that FedEx can only have interline benefits if the other airline agrees to it? Personal travel is simply a by-product of the business agreements. FedEx doesn't have to allow personal travel even if airlines are willing to offer it.

My point is that Fred has a vested interest in keeping the idea that FedEx is solely an airline alive and well. Yes, there is an airline component of FDX...just like UPS, but nobody calls UPS an "airline". The real airlines use FedEx heavily because they get a 75% discount, and I'm guessing Smith keeps this money-losing deal active not so we can get flight benefits, but to keep the "airline" facade intact.

FedEx and UPS are both systems integrators that fly airplanes in support of some of their delivery operations. Both are way too diversified to be bona fide "airline" operations. If United Airlines all of a sudden decided to get into the package business, and bought 100,000 trucks and hundreds of stations and sort facilities, their passenger operations would still be an airline, but the company as a whole could no longer be classified as such.

 

[bbsam]

My point is that Fred has a vested interest in keeping the idea that FedEx is solely an airline alive and well. Yes, there is an airline component of FDX...just like UPS, but nobody calls UPS an "airline". The real airlines use FedEx heavily because they get a 75% discount, and I'm guessing Smith keeps this money-losing deal active not so we can get flight benefits, but to keep the "airline" facade intact.

FedEx and UPS are both systems integrators that fly airplanes in support of some of their delivery operations. Both are way too diversified to be bona fide "airline" operations. If United Airlines all of a sudden decided to get into the package business, and bought 100,000 trucks and hundreds of stations and sort facilities, their passenger operations would still be an airline, but the company as a whole could no longer be classified as such.

Actually as is evidenced by FedEx thus far, it could still be classified as an airling.