TDU in action at ups!

[satellitedriver]

No way in hell will I forget, or forgive or understand.

Here we go, back to the big font...You might not forgive but you have definitely forgotten. If you indeed still have the offer in your files, reread it. Or maybe your RTW glasses are fogged. There was no offer to buy out just CS in '97. The offer was to replace all Pension plans not just CS. Not sure what the point of comparing withdrawal liability dollars as UPS didn't seem too "stretched" to afford the 2007 number.560 million to buy out all pension funds compared to 6 billion to just buy out-(save)- CS is far more than a stretch. But on to your points,
No 20 and out was offeredWrong,$2,000 at any age after 25yrs. although 20 was the floor for "early outs" which was reduced by age.Floor? What plan paid before 20yrs? The 25 and out was also reduced by again.$2,500 at age 60, was the offer. Retiree insurance was not free,Wrong again,the exact wording of the offer was this,"Retiree health care at age 50 with 25years of service,or any age with 30 years of service. in fact it matched the CS plan of $50 per month at the time. The flaw in your position is you're comparing recent reductions in CS plan with offers made in 1997. Not many at the time had the crystal ball. UPS health plans that cover active management today have monthly co-premiums not in place in 1997.The flaw in your logic is comparing management and a negotiated contract with hourly workers. Big diff. Do you in your wildest dreams think employees would be immune from those costs if the '97 UPS offer was accepted and H&W was offered to union employees?Oh, hell yes. Things have changed my friend, were you space travelling? Ask a retired UPS manager about the supplemental plan evaporation. Since '97 H&W costs have risen into low earth orbit. (that was for your benefit) I enjoyed the metaphor/joke, but, management and hourly workers work under different contracts.
I don't know the total number of Teamsters that showed up at local union strike authorization votes.15% I know in our local it was nearly unanimous. The number is small because most people are lazy and would rather watch "My Favorite Martian" than secure their future.My net worth is higher than my sups. I do know once the strike was called 99.5% of Teamsters stayed out 17 days without crossing a picket line.Out of fear, or they worked in forced to join states. You're the one in the small minority. More numbers... the UPS last best and final in '97 had wage offers totaling $1.50 plus two bonus years. The Teamsters secured you (a freeloader) $3.10 increases in wages. Do you own math on that. Base wages are multiplying benefits that grow at a exponential rate. You are thousands ahead every year because of that strike and because of the TEAMSTERS.

More numbers... the UPS last best and final in '97 had wage offers totaling $1.50 plus two bonus years. The Teamsters secured you (a freeloader) $3.10 increases in wages. Do you own math on that. Base wages are multiplying benefits that grow at a exponential rate. You are thousands ahead every year because of that strike and because of the TEAMSTERS.
Freeloader? I will match my work record 26yrs against anyone at UPS.
You want math?
Whip out your calculator and see what that $1.60-(incremental)- raise really bought you over the life of the contract.

OK, here is the math, from the 97' offer.
$3,060 Profit sharing check on ratification of contract -(basis, $60 x 0.1%net income)
August 1998, .50cents an hour.
August 1999, .50cents an hour.
August 2000, Profit sharing check -(basis, $60 x 0.1% net income)
August 2001, .50cents an hour.

Yep, da teamsters won dat contract.

 

[brownmonster]

If we would have accepted the companies offer in 97 we would now be non-union paying handsomely for our health insurance and enjoying a 401k with a whopping 3 percent match instead of a pension.

 

[brownIEman]

If we would have accepted the companies offer in 97 we would now be non-union paying handsomely for our health insurance and enjoying a 401k with a whopping 3 percent match instead of a pension.

??? There was nothing in the '97 offer that included breaking the union, having union employees contribute to their health insurance or replacing the pension. How the heck did you make that leap?

 

[Brother Joe]

jr sucks,tdu sucks and you suck.now go get your shine box .

Hickory dickory dock little blu was sucking the rooster. The rooster blew his goo & droped her off on the next block!
What have you done to build this union blu? From what I see is your trying to tear it down. Lead, follow or get out the way, cause Brother Joe is a freight train, chuga, chuga choo, choo. I'm a force of nature. I'm a human tornado.
You mean my stash box for the so called law? They'll wish Brother Joe is a Teamster they never saw. N.W.A - Bleep tha Police - YouTube
For your listening pleasure while you read this rebut of a suck.

 

[Catatonic]

If we would have accepted the companies offer in 97 we would now be non-union paying handsomely for our health insurance and enjoying a 401k with a whopping 3 percent match instead of a pension.

Strike One against the "Man of Great Wisdom" user title.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

They'll wish Brother Joe is a Teamster

No....

We will wish, that natural selection is true.



-Bug-

 

[bigblu 2 you]

Hickory dickory dock little blu was sucking the rooster. The rooster blew his goo & droped her off on the next block!
What have you done to build this union blu? From what I see is your trying to tear it down. Lead, follow or get out the way, cause Brother Joe is a freight train, chuga, chuga choo, choo. I'm a force of nature. I'm a human tornado.
You mean my stash box for the so called law? They'll wish Brother Joe is a Teamster they never saw. N.W.A - Bleep tha Police - YouTube
For your listening pleasure while you read this rebut of a suck.

wow,using ghetto rappers to send a message.stay classy joe.

 

[CharleyHustle]

Now the ups pension plan pays less than any Teamster pension plan for members that work at ups. We need to get organized for a better contract!

The CSPF is at critical status again for 2012 with almost $15billion more in liabilities than assets and sits at 58% funding. There is virtually no evidence that this situation is going to change anytime soon. The UPS/IBT fund has raised its funding dramaticly every year and now is 80% funded with a strong earning company UPS more than capable to make this situation improve in the future. Half of something is still something, 100% of nothing is still nothing.

 

[brownmonster]

??? There was nothing in the '97 offer that included breaking the union, having union employees contribute to their health insurance or replacing the pension. How the heck did you make that leap?

What I meant was it would have been the beginning of a slow erosion of the benefits we have now. It happened to mgmnt.

 

[hembone]

The CSPF is at critical status again for 2012 with almost $15billion more in liabilities than assets and sits at 58% funding. There is virtually no evidence that this situation is going to change anytime soon. The UPS/IBT fund has raised its funding dramaticly every year and now is 80% funded with a strong earning company UPS more than capable to make this situation improve in the future. Half of something is still something, 100% of nothing is still nothing.

Good post.. I appreciate common sense.

 

[Brother Joe]

The CSPF is at critical status again for 2012 with almost $15billion more in liabilities than assets and sits at 58% funding. There is virtually no evidence that this situation is going to change anytime soon. The UPS/IBT fund has raised its funding dramaticly every year and now is 80% funded with a strong earning company UPS more than capable to make this situation improve in the future. Half of something is still something, 100% of nothing is still nothing.

The pension protection act is an anti-union bill to undermine pensions & union power. They set it up to fail. By letting ups pull out of it hurt it. By letting yrc not pay into it for 18 months hurt it. It will probably only get worse if jr & sucks don't negotiate higher contributions as well as organize new members & get them into the pension. The deal to get card check for around 15,000 possible members at overnite/ups freight was traded for letting ups pull around 45,000 members out of central states. That was a 3 to 1 deal against the Teamsters & they are not in the pension. We lost 100,000 members under jrs reign. he gave himself a $70,000 raise though. he did that by raising dues. Like I said, how much is the ups pension paying? Less than any Teamster ups pension. They set it up to fail. Then they offer a solution that benefits them. Remember the ups thrift plan...

 

[Catatonic]

Strike One against the "Man of Great Wisdom" user title.

What I meant was it would have been the beginning of a slow erosion of the benefits we have now. It happened to mgmnt.

OK, that's a good point, although ambiguously stated. I'll give you your strike back.

 

[brownmonster]

OK, that's a good point, although ambiguously stated. I'll give you your strike back.

Thank you. I like to step up to the plate with the count 0-0.

 

[satellitedriver]

If we would have accepted the companies offer in 97 we would now be non-union paying handsomely for our health insurance and enjoying a 401k with a whopping 3 percent match instead of a pension.

Really?
Do you honestly believe your statement/prognostication about past actions?
UPS has paid "handsomely" for my full coverage health insurance for the past 26yrs.
I damn sure wish every penny paid to Central States, by UPS for my retirement, would have been placed in my 401k.
No match of 3% would have been needed.
I have more than most, but 97', insured that I had less in the future.

 

[Anonymous 10]

TDU in Action at UPS
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Tdu is a scam.

 

[brownIEman]

The deal to get card check for around 15,000 possible members at overnite/ups freight was traded for letting ups pull around 45,000 members out of central states. That was a 3 to 1 deal against the Teamsters & they are not in the pension.

?? The deal was to transfer 45,000 teamsters to another, Teamster pension fund. They are still Teamsters are they not? They are still in a pension are they not?
And the trade to get them out of CS, as I understand it was not for 15,000 card checks, but for $6Billion in cash.

 

[Inthegame]

OK, here is the math, from the 97' offer.
$3,060 Profit sharing check on ratification of contract -(basis, $60 x 0.1%net income)
August 1998, .50cents an hour.
August 1999, .50cents an hour.
August 2000, Profit sharing check -(basis, $60 x 0.1% net income)
August 2001, .50cents an hour.

Yep, da teamsters won dat contract.

The offer you would have accepted would have resulted in a loss of nearly $5400 over the five year period compared to the accepted Teamster agreement. (figured at FT driver wage averaging 45 hours per week) But the key is the increase in base wages over the UPS offer of bonuses. In 2002 your wage was $1.60 higher than it would have been under the UPS offer in '97. That means your base wage in the year following that agreement paid you nearly $4000 (again FT @ 45 hours) more than the UPS offer. That's $4000 more every year since or $40,000 to date. TEAMSTER negotiated money that even ungrateful freeloaders receive. So yes spaceman, the Teamsters did win that contract.

 

[PobreCarlos]

Inthegame;

Nor sure about your figures, but one thing that perhaps shouldn't be forgotten is the hundred million dollar concession/rebate Teamster Central States trustees pushed forward in order to get UPS back to the table (see "Sprague v. CSPF"....SPRAGUE v. CENTRAL STATES, SOUTHEAST AND SOUTHWEST-February 6, 2001.). That, coupled with the eventual collapse of Central States, probably ought to be consider when talking about a "Teamster win".

 

[moreluck]

visions of Archie & Meathead all over again !!

 

[Inthegame]

Nor sure about your figures, but one thing that perhaps shouldn't be forgotten is the hundred million dollar concession/rebate Teamster Central States trustees pushed forward in order to get UPS back to the table (see "Sprague v. CSPF"....SPRAGUE v. CENTRAL STATES, SOUTHEAST AND SOUTHWEST�-�February 6, 2001.). That, coupled with the eventual collapse of Central States, probably ought to be consider when talking about a "Teamster win".


Pobre, The numbers are accurate and conservative. The average paid day is higher today than in 2002, hence $40K would be on the low end.
The Sprague case (TDU's big story in the early 2000's) was dismissed as the defendants (CS trustees) position on the abatement of contributions for 5 months was considered prudent in the context of the overall agreement. Remember the withdrawal liability doesn't lessen with suspended contributions, in fact it increases, so the "back loaded" position the trustees held proved legitimate as UPS's eventual withdrawal was over 6 Bl. The "plan" more than made up the 100ml abatement, and the strike was ended allowing paychecks to return.
That strike also set the tone for the 2002 agreement that had much improved numbers for H&W and P contributions,(between $24-$28 per year) and surprising wage increases. In fact the increases of the last agreement were once again surprisingly generous. I have little confidence these numbers will be sustained.
My response was to a monday morning quarterback who has answers (inaccurate as they are) after the fact. In 1997 the economic outlook in this country was much brighter than it is now. To put blame on Teamster leaders looking out for their members using revisionist history is bogus.
Thank you for your thoughts.