The Semantics and Deception of Contract Language vs. IBT Highlights..

[realbrown1]

This is interesting

UPS to Buy the Post Office? | Fox Business Video

What does this fantasy land have to do with our current debate? Don't tell me your one of those OG cheerleaders who just trying to distract from the real debate? Stink, does this guy belong to you?

 

[stink219]

I read them carefully as well, but one has me stumped. Article 37(page 30) in regards to 9.5
Employees within the full-time driver classification shall be eligible for the protection of this Section provided: (1) the employee covers a route for a full week; (2) the employee bids or is assigned to cover a route for a full week but is prevented from completing that bid or assignment due to reassignment by the Employer; or (3) an employee with four (4) years of seniority as a full-time package driver.

Ive been cover driving for 8 years part time, Im not full time yet, what does this mean? Looks like even full time drivers with less than 4 years do not have 9.5 rights?

You haven't read as carefully as you should. You're missing the meaning of the word "or" as opposed to "and".

Boom!! You caught that too!! Nice job man!!

 

[stink219]

This is interesting

UPS to Buy the Post Office? | Fox Business Video

What does this fantasy land have to do with our current debate? Don't tell me your one of those OG cheerleaders who just trying to distract from the real debate? Stink, does this guy belong to you?

Every local endorsed this contract unanimously. That includes your failing TDU locals. This must suck for Paff. He can't scare people of getting screwed. Btw, IF Carey were still president, would he be considered old guard?

 

[SouthernComfort]

Boom!! You caught that too!! Nice job man!!

Is it always common practice to make mockery of the ones who wish to educate themselves? I spend more time at work than I do in my own bed... How is 11 hours of manual labor and 7 hours of quality rest beneficial for any UPS employee in the company's best interest? Ill take a $2/hour pay cut for lighter days... Ill still run 20 stops an hour, no big deal.... But my family is worth more to me than the extra $20 a day.

 

[Inthegame]

Is it always common practice to make mockery of the ones who wish to educate themselves? I spend more time at work than I do in my own bed... How is 11 hours of manual labor and 7 hours of quality rest beneficial for any UPS employee in the company's best interest? Ill take a $2/hour pay cut for lighter days... Ill still run 20 stops an hour, no big deal.... But my family is worth more to me than the extra $20 a day.

No one was mocking you. You didn't read the language as written. The 9.5 language has improved but the members need to act. The guys that wrote this can't hold everyones hand.
You're in the smallest minority suggesting a wage reduction. Your personal time is addressed with the superior vacation time granted under your union contract. Think that would be available if UPS was non-union? You'd have your pay cut with less vacation and longer hours if that was the case.

 

[804brown]

OR 4 years of seniority as a FULL-TIME package driver. I am not a full time package driver, I am a part time employee that drives package 10 months a year. I might drive 4 straight months, then be pushed back into the hub(part time) for a week or 2 when there are no vacations and/or volume is unusually low.
I do not have 1 day of full time package seniority, however, I have been driving since 2005 AND have gotten 156 reports(or more) a year.

Great, part time package drivers!!! No wonder they dont have to hire anymore package drivers. If you have been doing this SINCE 2005, why havent you made FT book??

 

[804brown]

Every local endorsed this contract unanimously. That includes your failing TDU locals. This must suck for Paff. He can't scare people of getting screwed. Btw, IF Carey were still president, would he be considered old guard?

If Carey was STILL president, bargaining would have just BEGUN!! Non of this early negotiations crap that takes away our leverage of the looming Aug 1st date!! As for the old guard, they would have been dead and buried since their demise in 1991 and 1996. He would have turned a wing of the marble palace into a museum im sure with a room dedicated to the old guard and their worn out, corrupt ways: photos of money under the table, photos of OG in prison clothes, pinky rings, cigars, photos of golf outings with company officers, etc. Carey was and always will be known as a REFORMER. He was the epitamy of what was right about unionism. The man always PUT MEMBERS FIRST.

 

[SouthernComfort]

Great, part time package drivers!!! No wonder they dont have to hire anymore package drivers. If you have been doing this SINCE 2005, why havent you made FT book??

No full time routes open.... the extra volume that could "create" new routes just gets split up to guys with no 9.5 rights keeping them out 11 hours a day, the guys with 9.5 rights carry their air/ground volume back to the building. Theres NO incentives for feeder drivers able to retire to actually retire, we have the lowest pension in the country in my region... they wont go from sitting on their butt all day in a tractor making $100k a year to sitting on their butt all day at home for $36k a year so the advancement for employees here is at an absolute hault.

 

[oldupsman]

No full time routes open.... the extra volume that could "create" new routes just gets split up to guys with no 9.5 rights keeping them out 11 hours a day, the guys with 9.5 rights carry their air/ground volume back to the building. Theres NO incentives for feeder drivers able to retire to actually retire, we have the lowest pension in the country in my region... they wont go from sitting on their butt all day in a tractor making $100k a year to sitting on their butt all day at home for $36k a year so the advancement for employees here is at an absolute hault.

It won't just be your area, it will be everywhere. You're going to see alot of feeder drivers working into their 70's.
It's just as much about health care as it is pension money.

 

[realbrown1]

Every local endorsed this contract unanimously. That includes your failing TDU locals. This must suck for Paff. He can't scare people of getting screwed. Btw, IF Carey were still president, would he be considered old guard?

I don't give a rat's behind if TDU locals have endorced the TA. I, unlike you, think for myself. This TA sucks.

 

[Brownslave688]

OR 4 years of seniority as a FULL-TIME package driver. I am not a full time package driver, I am a part time employee that drives package 10 months a year. I might drive 4 straight months, then be pushed back into the hub(part time) for a week or 2 when there are no vacations and/or volume is unusually low.
I do not have 1 day of full time package seniority, however, I have been driving since 2005 AND have gotten 156 reports(or more) a year.

Great, part time package drivers!!! No wonder they dont have to hire anymore package drivers. If you have been doing this SINCE 2005, why havent you made FT book??

Exactly just like summer seasonal is a joke. We are hiring 5 seasonals this summer. That'll be 10% of work force.

The reason? "To cut down on everyone's paid day." Oh how nice of ten to cut all the full scale drivers paid day. Ill bet the seasonals work 10+ everyday.

 

[Brownslave688]

No full time routes open.... the extra volume that could "create" new routes just gets split up to guys with no 9.5 rights keeping them out 11 hours a day, the guys with 9.5 rights carry their air/ground volume back to the building. Theres NO incentives for feeder drivers able to retire to actually retire, we have the lowest pension in the country in my region... they wont go from sitting on their butt all day in a tractor making $100k a year to sitting on their butt all day at home for $36k a year so the advancement for employees here is at an absolute hault.

It won't just be your area, it will be everywhere. You're going to see alot of feeder drivers working into their 70's.
It's just as much about health care as it is pension money.

Don't forget with the 15 year wait to go full time and then a 4 year progression many wont be full scale until 40.

They will need to work into their 70's to make up for all those lost wages.

 

[oldupsman]

Don't forget with the 15 year wait to go full time and then a 4 year progression many wont be full scale until 40.

They will need to work into their 70's to make up for all those lost wages.

I'm almost starting to believe that is what UPS wants. The old guys show up when they're supposed to and on time.
They don't go beating up the equipment. So what if they're paying them top rate and 6 weeks vacation. They've got money.
And if they work past 65 they don't have to worry about retiree health care costs.

 

[SouthernComfort]

I'm almost starting to believe that is what UPS wants. The old guys show up when they're supposed to and on time.
They don't go beating up the equipment. So what if they're paying them top rate and 6 weeks vacation. They've got money.
And if they work past 65 they don't have to worry about retiree health care costs.

We have over 25 feeder drivers here in "The Cotton Ball Club"... those are the guys with straight white hair, not even a spec of grey. Not to be confused with the "Q Tip Club", those guys are 22.3 and and are much skinnier than the feeder drivers!!!!

 

[twoweeled]

Deception? I have been harping on this for the longest time. How about this one:
Company must confirm by direct observation or other corroborating evidence any other violations warranting discharge. The degree of discipline dealing with off-area offenses shall not be changed because of the use of GPS.

Where is the KING SIZE LOOP HOLE here? "Company must confirm by direct observation or other corroborating evidence". what do we consider valid "corroborating evidence"?? I have been saying for the longest time. UPS needs to be able to discipline off the electronics. they cannot cut down on management with it! They will have a sup just staring at a screen all day long, doing the job of 5, ONLY IF THEY CAN DISCIPLINE OFF THAT SCREEN. If they have to send out sups to observe you, then that defeats the purpose!!! The "corroborating evidence" can be anything. They might just stick a camera in your package car. Who knows the capabilities of the IVIS? (and for you smart guys. They will make a point of disciplining for covering cameras). I brought this up in the lunch room, and the response was "well our business agent told us we're safe from that". I just shook my head, "we're done"!

 

[Catatonic]

Deception? I have been harping on this for the longest time. How about this one:
Company must confirm by direct observation or other corroborating evidence any other violations warranting discharge. The degree of discipline dealing with off-area offenses shall not be changed because of the use of GPS.

Where is the KING SIZE LOOP HOLE here? "Company must confirm by direct observation or other corroborating evidence". what do we consider valid "corroborating evidence"?? I have been saying for the longest time. UPS needs to be able to discipline off the electronics. they cannot cut down on management with it! They will have a sup just staring at a screen all day long, doing the job of 5, ONLY IF THEY CAN DISCIPLINE OFF THAT SCREEN. If they have to send out sups to observe you, then that defeats the purpose!!! The "corroborating evidence" can be anything. They might just stick a camera in your package car. Who knows the capabilities of the IVIS? (and for you smart guys. They will make a point of disciplining for covering cameras). I brought this up in the lunch room, and the response was "well our business agent told us we're safe from that". I just shook my head, "we're done"!

​What's the difference in recording directly and recording remotely.

​The bottom-line is, correct the behavior.

​I've heard some wise drivers on here advise that a driver should always assume they are being observed.

 

[SouthernComfort]

Your always being watched. Do the job right, follow the methods.... the easiest way to screw up it to let them get under your skin and get stressed out and make mistakes. Your not going to improve your numbers by backing in residential driveways, or throwing that 65lb box on your shoulder instead of taking the extra 1 minute to load and unload your hand cart. I make an extra $2000 year by following the methods.

 

[anonymous6]

spoke to a labor attorney about the contract. he read it for me.

his first response was "are you kidding?"

his final analysis was that the language was "WEAK" and "IRRESPONSIBLE"

hope you will all agree that the language in the 2008 was weak and irresponsible. seems like we are going down the same path with this one.

we need to send this message to Hall and vote NO. tell him he needs to strengthen the language. does not mean we will have a strike. just means they need to go back to the drawing board and then revote.