this feels good

[ironylife]

I have a business on my route that ships out with us and receives many packages a week with us. I went in there today and they told me that one of their accounts that they use shipped something by ups. They said that after the strike they were very upset and started using fedex. This is the first package this business had seen being shipped to them by ups in 8 years. I guess it doesnt matter how long it takes before customers come back to us, as long as they do.....eventually.

 

[brett636]

Yes, it is nice. Now its our responsibility to hope we never have to see another strike. It seemed we got a little close to one during the last contract negotiation.

 

[steamheat]

Excuse me brett636, but you were 14 at the time of the strike. Were you a UPS employee then?

 

[dannyboy]

Steam

You dont have to have AIDS to know how deadly and serious it is.

Whether Brett was a UPS employee or not really does not matter now does it.

But then again, he could be the son or daughter of a UPS person, and they saw all to clearly what happened.

I have undergone two strikes at my years at UPS, one three months or so, and the other the JOKE that lasted two weeks. If the teamsters call another one, for whatever flavor they think is all that important, then if we go out, shame on us. Let them throw the party that no one came for.

d

 

[ja7618]

dannyboy I totally agree with you, a stike is the last thing any of us need, the last one was a huge joke for all

 

[rushfan]

agree.

 

[longups]

I disagree. The last strike (1997) was a disaster for the UPS Teamster retirement. UPS Drivers should be retiring with a lot more pension money then they get from the teamsters. Rather their money goes to all Teamster companies regardless of who worked or paid for it!
A scam by the Teamsters against our drivers. But it did look nice for Ron Carey who we all love.

 

[brett636]

Excuse me Steamheat, but I fail to see how old I was during the 97 strike relates to my feelings about future strikes. I am a ups employee going on five years next month. I am also a shareholder. From what I gather the 97 strike was a waste and got you nothing. I certainly don't want another waste of my time and stock value because the teamsters just want to waste more pension money. If I am still at UPS come 2008 the union better have a DAMN good reason for a strike or I will not be supporting one if it comes down to that.

 

[gman]

I was not in favor of the strike either but come contract time it is the only leverage you have. Without at least the threat of a work stoppage, we may get flushed down the toilet. Count on lost benefits, co-pays, less vacation and losing what little control you have over over-time to mention a few if they get their way. They raise the weight limits, size limits, stop counts and planned days with a key stroke on a computer. Mangement has lost benefits, has big co-pays and have recently had their bonus structure re-modeled (which is shere UPS showed most of their profits last quarter). The only thing that matters are the numbers. They know it, we know it, the customers know it, the stock holders know it and our competitors know it. Personally, I think the second hundred years at UPS are going to be a lot tougher than the first for everybody, mangement and hourly alike. The guys at the top are making decisions with their stock options in mind. The higher they get the stock by the time they retire, the bigger the payoff when they go and most of them will be gone before the next contract.

 

[ok2bclever]

I agree with gman.

I am not in favor of a strike and I don't see it feasible that we will have one as it would be bad for us, UPS and the Teamsters.

However, a workforce that guarantees UPS that they won't strike no matter what UPS offers them will get record concessions.

It isn't so much what you get, it's what you can lose.

Job loss for lower seniority people and several weeks worth of wages is not trivial for sure, but it is nothing compared to what unfettered concessions can do to our future.

I have been here since 1973 and the 2008 economics and political environment will most likely be the most worker unfriendly situation we have been in.

Look for probably significant medical concessions IF the union DOES a good job of portraying a union supportive workforce and far far worse if they cannot.

 

[toonertoo]

I agree that anyone who works at UPS now has to look at the history of what happened in the past, now there is a concerned employee, informed and we need more like him. JMHO

 

[robonono]

I will repeat myself from another thread.

Let me start with the disclaimer: I am a retired division manager. You may discount everything I say here, or read on - your option, your future.....

Remember that the union does not strike without the authorization of its membership.

Unfortunately, as part of their negotiating tactics, the union requests a strike authorization vote <u>early</u> in the game, before employees have any idea of where the two parties are in the process. No details have been released to the members at the time of this vote.

All too often an extremely small number of members take the time to go to the union hall to cast their vote on this extremely important initiative. Usually only the die-hard activist members attend. This is usually not a mail-in ballot. Attendance is usually required.

If you are concerned about a strike, either for or against, I recommend that you attend and cast your vote at this critical meeting. All members should be heard, not just the vocal members.

(Message edited by robonono on May 12, 2005)

 

[ezrider]

There were customers where I am as well that swore to me (in between cursing at me) that they would never come back after the debacle of '97. While some of them were "high maintenance" and were perpetual complainers long before the strike happened, most of us here if put in the situation would have done the same thing. Many small businesses and the people that they employed depending on our service watched helplessly as thier livlihood was threatened and in some cases obliterated as the result of not being able to keep thier customers. Almost 8 years later I still see some of the people who weren't fortunate enough to have a job to come back to because of the fallout and it's hard to take sometimes.

Thru no fault of thier own, they wound up being collateral damage and had to start over with a new employer, usually making less money, losing most if not all the benefits that they put all that time in at thier previous employer that either laid them off or just shut down completely. While I don't condone angry customers lashing out, it's understandable going through that experience would bring out the worst emotions. Ron Carey's "victory" as he liked to call it was largely thier defeat.

Robono, I agree that the drivers (as a group) have to take a fair share of responsibilty for how it all unfolded in '97. But it takes two. I wonder if the boardroom in Atlanta ever bothered to ask themselves how come drivers, despite earning higher wages than the competitors, would rather take thier chances with Carey and hall then listen to the pleas to at least take more than a token glance at "Last, Best, Final". After 10 years of wearing the uniform I've got a pretty good idea why the hourlies wouldn't listen to mangement then. It's because management hardly ever listens to reason when given many if not every opportunity to create an atmosphere where chances for honest and straitforward dialogue could lead to real solutions to bridge the gaps during what's becoming a day-in-day-out struggle for the driver's voice to be heard.

I don't know how many times in the last decade I've seen the best drivers in my building get either outright ignored, told to stay out of the way or hawked when trying to point to an easier way or spotting a situation they know is gonna backfire. It's starting to look like UPS management cares more about suppressing the symptoms of the problems rather than actually making the effort to solve the actual problems. PAS/EDD is just the latest example. They don't care if it helps or ruins a driver's day so long as they can make the magic number appear on thier reports to the upper tier.

It reminds me of IBM many years back. They had overwhelming market share, well paid workers, and much more working capital than the competition and they eventually fell back to the pack because thier management structure discouraged feedback from the workers closest to the customer. Gman has a valid point. It's a fine line but there's no leverage for the hourlies unless they show that if pushed they are willing to walk it. And management keeps pushing and pushing every single day. If management doesn't like hardball tactics at contract time, maybe they should re-evaluate thier own hardball tactics they display in the meantime.

 

[dannyboy]

You know, I like to play Black Jack when ever I can. On a trip to Biloxi a while back, there was this thought at the table that IF we play as a team, the house looses and most of us go away winners. Beating the house is wonderful, but it didnt take me long to figure out that as a team player that was directly to the right of the dealer, I was four figures down while every one else made a killing. All the while before staying my game, I was close to four figures ahead.

As a teamster, but a UPS employee first, It gripes me to take things on the chin for the "betterment" of the group as a whole. One of the large battles of the strike was the creation of new full time jobs. HAvent seen too many have you? Why?

Our retirement is in shambles and the trust factor in the union when it comes to the retirement of UPS employees is at an all time low. Why? With as much as UPS is placing in the coffers we all should be taken care of well.

Or work days are long allready, the insurance pays less and less allready. And the raises we have gotten on the last contract dont keep up with the inflation rate.

So tell me, what have we gotten from the last strike and the threats of strike that we have seen in the last 10 years.

Not much if you ask me.

And as for what Robono posted, this tactic was used at our center. The thugs waited at the gates of the center intimidating the workforce to sign the strike authorization. I refused, but too many were pressured into signing. There was also the contention that several did not sign, but yet the vote was so high that 98% of the members would have had to sign it. But yet that many never did sign it, so there was fraud in the system.

Bottom line is that while I will be out by then, think long and hard if you are sure you want someone else in charge of your destiny without imput from you. It is YOUR union, and unless you stand up for what is right, those few with loud mouths will run all over all the rest of us.

d

 

[proups]

If there is a strike in 2008, look for a much smaller UPS.

FredEx has built an infrastructure that will handle what they could not handle in 1997. Even though we all know UPS does a better job than they do, they will be there for OUR customers if there is a strike.

If I were a small business owner, I wouldn't come back.

In fact, if I were a large business owner, I would never give UPS everything again....and we are still trying to win back volume we lost in 1997.

I expect concessions. If we all take a look at what is happening to the airline industry, we can see where the rest of the transportation industry is heading if we don't do what is best for the company, like it or not.

What all drivers need to do now is participate in the sales lead program to get more packages and union jobs, and make sure our customers know UPSers don't want another strike.

 

[over9five]

I have NO hope of a successful outcome of the 2008 negotiations.
What you have to do is be prepared. Have a plan. Save your money. Think about what else you can do for employment. Especially you younger people. In my best scenario, I'll be looking at "a much smaller UPS", like Proups said.

Oh yeah..... I hope I'm wrong.

 

[rushfan]

I agree.

 

[gman]

You have no faith in the intelligence of either the union employees or UPS management. (Notice I left out Teamster management) If we continue to flatline in volume growth, the writing will be on the wall as to what will have to happen in 2008. You can only continue to raise prices for so long to show that profit margin.

Eventually you have to cut cost and the highest cost is that of the drivers and their benefits. Management has already taken a huge hit. They have slashed their numbers and salary oportunities. By comparison with other Fortune 500 companies, UPS top dogs are underpaid. The teamsters got in the hole and slashed our benefits.

What makes anyone think UPS can be the golden egg forever. There is a point of diminishing returns folks. We are well past it as hourly employees. I would like to avoid concessions. I think we have to be realistic as to what we can expect from the next contract. We will not compete with companies with deep pockets who have a payroll that is 30% less than ours, no matter what kind of service we give. It's all about the bottom line and evetually businesses will have to go with the shipping company that can help tham improve their own. Just my opinion.

And by the way, for the strike, we had a paper ballot and the vote was something like 150 for to 5 against. I was one of the five.

 

[trickpony1]

gman,
I agree.
The strike of '97 wasn't about creating full time jobs for the PT'ers and the war chant "part-time America won't work"
I believe the general public and the hourly employees were deceived.
The strike was all about not letting the company take over the pension and H&amp;W in my opinion.
If both parties can negotiate their ego's, there could be a win-win scenario July 31, 2008.

 

[isdrone]

I was around during the strike in 97'. I was in management and have to admit I had never in my life seen such madness. I have a question for all of the union members posting would you have voted yes for UPS handling your retirement if given the chance? I remember this being the big sticking point and reason for the strike.
If we have a strike in 2008 - it will not be pretty for anyone - union and management alike. DHL, FedEx, USPS are ready and licking their chops. The biggest winner in a strike would be DHL. Right now they cannot get their foot in the door. A strike would kick the door down for them. I just hope cooler heads prevail.....